modified descussion

[AJennings]

A racer brought up at a meeting that in fah/r, feh/r you can do anything to the motors. While it all the other classes you have a restriction on what you can do inside the motors, due to the different motors in the other classe. What you can't do is change the bore, stroke, C.C., carb., and gearcase dementions, but any thing else you can change. What does everyone else feel about this?

[Sonny]

out of boat

the motor that wins all the races in FEH is the 3 hole evinrude and they are not full tilt motors... there is more power to be had but the motor becomes to much for the boat.

[sam]

A racer brought up at a meeting that in fah and feh you can do anything to the motors. While it all the other classes you have a restriction on what you can do inside the motors. What you can't do is change the bore, stroke, C.C., carb., and gearcase dementions, but any thing else you can change. What does everyone else feel about this?

Read the Tech Manual, this is not correct

[alky6]

the motor that wins all the races in FEH is the 3 hole evinrude and they are not full tilt motors... there is more power to be had but the motor becomes to much for the boat.

You just need a bigger boat! he, he.

[Mike Beegle]

STOCKIFIED Not MODIFIED

Thats what all us mod guys are running Stockified engines...
I believe if were going to call our class modified Than lets be modified...

I understand why we have limitations on what we can do because of the limitation of parts... But this is not the case any more..

Engine parts are more and more becoming available. Such as yamato 80 parts.. Pistons,sleaves,rings all available.. so why not file on the ports... Seems as some of the best equipment is illegal any way.. Depending on who inspects it.. Is my radius ports different than yours..???

I know mine are all legal with square edges.. The winters not over yet though...

I think it would make it a little more fun if we could do a little more ..

I have a program for making pipes it covers alot of stuff squish band , port timing etc...

You have to look at an engine from the inside out... The design of the cylinder head, port timing and pipe must be coordinated to the peek simutaneously in the rpm band...

By us just throwing a pipe on it gets it close ,but not close to the engine potential..

My two cents...

Mike Beegle
9-M

[hshawwpba]

mod discussion

A racer brought up at a meeting that in fah and feh you can do anything to the motors. While it all the other classes you have a restriction on what you can do inside the motors. What you can't do is change the bore, stroke, C.C., carb., and gearcase dementions, but any thing else you can change. What does everyone else feel about this?

I agree we need to open up the mod division to allow all engines to be limited to bore and stroke only on gas, and allow all modifications to be done.The simple rule that you can not add carbs, or add material inside the cylinder block needs to remain. I also think we need to expand the FE engines to include the 66 CU. Merc 6 cly.
This is the year to become a true Modified racing division.
Opening up the engines to be bore and stroke will take major work off our inspectors and speed up inspection process.
Let's get this done at the national meeting, send your commissioner a request for change in 2006.

[pro350hydro]

Good Idea.

I agree we need to open up the mod division to allow all engines to be limited to bore and stroke only on gas, and allow all modifications to be done.The simple rule that you can not add carbs, or add material inside the cylinder block needs to remain. I also think we need to expand the FE engines to include the 66 CU. Merc 6 cly.
This is the year to become a true Modified racing division.
Opening up the engines to be bore and stroke will take major work off our inspectors and speed up inspection process.
Let's get this done at the national meeting, send your commissioner a request for change in 2006.

[ryan_4z]

I agree we need to open up the mod division to allow all engines to be limited to bore and stroke only on gas, and allow all modifications to be done.The simple rule that you can not add carbs, or add material inside the cylinder block needs to remain. I also think we need to expand the FE engines to include the 66 CU. Merc 6 cly.
This is the year to become a true Modified racing division.
Opening up the engines to be bore and stroke will take major work off our inspectors and speed up inspection process.
Let's get this done at the national meeting, send your commissioner a request for change in 2006.

So, what you are saying is that we should have a second, gasoline powered, Pro category. If you make this category and unlimited one, it will totally screw up the speed ranges of the classes. I have heard that a Yamato(302, 102) with no restrictions, could be made to go almost 90 mph in competition. That would put it in the speed range of a DMH, and leave the Merc guys with only a small handful of boats nationwide. They wouldn't be able to race EVER! Not even at the nationals. The Mod division serves as a great in-between category of Stock and Pro. That's what it is, lets not change the whole basis of this category. As I have said before, each category serves a purpose for people who have different veiws at what ouboard racing should be. Between Stock, Mod, and Pro, there is a place for everyone. We should never forget this, and make one category a mirror of another.

[ryan_4z]

Good Idea.

This is coming from a guy who races Pro. Just wanted to point this out as proof of my previous post.

[David Weaver]

Modified and PRO

There is a big difference from building a PRO engine from a block of aluminum and modifying an existing stock engine. Both are equally challenging and for a time frustrating. And both can be very rewarding. Both encourage innovation and experimentation which advances the sport. Note the problems in the categories that try to retain the status quo for years and then decide to innovate. This creates difficulites, as opposed to constantly innovating. Check another thread on this board for further proof of this.

I just do not see a more stroke/bore orientation for modified as creating PRO division 2. IF you read the suggestions in this thread carefully, they each state that you start with a standard production engine and retain a few core elements of that engine. This alone creates a significant divide between PRO and MOD. VRP and Rossi do not start-off with an Italian fishing engine and then modify them to run on alchohol.

By the way, gasoline is perfectly legal to use in any PRO class. SO the statement that MOD would become PRO on gasoline is inaccurate. How suprising!

What some seem to miss all the discussion is the tenet that simpler is better. Simplify the rule maunual and inspection. And also encourage innovation.

Discalimer: I only run PRO and have never raced MOD's. So, some in eastern NC would suggest that my opinion will be less valid than others opinions on the matter (despite being a part of this sport for 31+ years). So be it. HOWEVER, I would still love to see (1) modified class that was wide open and allowed to run on methanol, just so we could hear loopers really sing again!!!! I would find that entertaining, but I would only be a spectator or a volunteer at the race.

Now, all those who fear change, please feel free to blast away. Unlike Ryan, I am headed to work.....

[sam]

...The simple rule that you can not add carbs, or add material inside the cylinder block needs to remain. I also think we need to expand the FE engines to include the 66 CU. Merc 6 cly...

I do not see 66's as any more available than the 60 ci six cylinder; what would this serve other than decreasing the competitiveness of currently running 60's?

Adding carbs and adding material is currently legal on some motors. Are you proposing to make a few currently legal motors illegal? Anyone in particular you wish to throw out?

[ryan_4z]

Maybe I should have said "a Pro category RESTRICTED to gasoline." Would that be accurate enought for you David. As for your disclaimer, I only race stock, and mod very rarely. I am not a mod guy. If the mod guys want an unlimited, bore and stroke inspection manual, It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. I'm just just telling you that I don't think it would get us anywhere in the long run. I would suggest having only one, maybe two classes that have open inspection manuals. But they would have to be new classes. If you throw out the current inspection manual, then EVERYONE in Mod has to rebuild their motors. Extensive overhauls would be required. It would be like the whole category starting from scratch.

[14-H]

Modified Theory

I once was a Modified Commissioner (sounds like the beginning of a novel). I too subscribed to the theory that anything ought to go in this category (external expansion chambers on the OMC A, for instance). I quickly came to understand from the Modified drivers who have been involved in the category for many years (many from the beginning), that the best theory for modified rule-making is to approach the category as one which begins with production service powerheads and allows modifications only for ease of operation, due to parts supply or to maintain affordable, low-cost racing. In other words, modified should not be an unlimited category, but a category that allows modifications to keep the engines on the water and the racing affordable. Unlimited rules have exactly the opposite effect.

I now also subscribe to this theory as the basis for considering any modified rule change.

[G Stillwill]

The only change I would like to see is in the gear cases. Any gear case and tower for any of the classes that are now legal to run that we have now.

[ANZANI-QUINCY FREAK]

Rationalizing And Modernizing Stock To Mod To Pro

I am beginning to hear that people are starting to think more and more about Stock, Modified to Pro Outboard in some progressive ways.

For Stock Racing Outboards, keeping definative displacement sizes never mind charging technologies, within the displacement limits factory produced stock blocked, carbed, exhaust and cowled engines made for stock racing by the outboard manufacturer or by being by a stock/fishing engine maker adapted to fit a a universal tower and anyone's brand of gearcase would also fit that class. Like the D-Tohatsu/Bass or some old deflector OMC 40 keeping in mind that is had to has to come off the shelf to the consuming public with costs in mind without resorting to blueprinting be the case. Old allegences have anything to do with this anymore. Want to race a dinosaur engine in D-Stock or a new one and stock ones on that universal racing tower with water level exhaust and anyone's racing gearcase is the point. That builds in succession. As people get their feet wet with experience in racing their pocketbooks and their racing needs will be met.

If we are turly going to have modified outboards, then allow only all out altered/modified ski/fishing outboards using cube limits, but no made for stock outboard racing engines be allowed to enter unless they have a predecessor that is a stock racing outboard made specifically for that by the same ski/fishing manufacturer. Example the Merc 55H goes 44 cube stock blocked Merc but complete modifications otherwise but it had to start out being a production outboard motor to begin with and on gasoline. So someone uses Mikuni carbs on a Merc 44. You can take materials out of the engine but not add to its internals as like in crankcase stuffing or welding on compression pads. Wide open otherwise.

Pro. Their rules are pretty much that it has displacements but it does not matter if the thing was an outboard motor to begin with but basically only that the engine has to end up as an outboard motor using gasoline or Alky.

What I am saying is that we need to modernize, rationalize and hemoglate in Stock Racing Outboard and Modified Racing Outboard to get our appeal back to and available to to the weekend warriors out there who right now have no reasonable access to engines due to specializations holding back these two catagorys to the person off the street who does want to get into this stuff. Our exhausts in Modified are also causing some problems and bad ones where bells are concerned. I am not saying abandon them so much as open up engines that can use what is best for them and what the public can enjoy without getting you threatened, jailed or fined by some bylaw enforcement or police officer or all those if you came back for round 2 or to test.

What I am seeing is that we have failed to grasp the changing times with a lot of false allegiances in terms of technologies and its doing ourselves a dis-service.

I am trying to provoke thought to get people and racing back into mass appeal and support, so feel free to criticise as that word means all kind of views that provoke thought and heathy changes I think and that is my view that are long overdue. If some of this sounds like heresy, so I am heretic! Problem is many racers have equipment but have lost places to run them anymore. We are sidelined with problems we created. Its a combination of engine and parts availability(s) and noise.