25ss on parker pipe

[runabout333]

There are about 40 Mercury 20 powerheads on ebay.. I do not know if any of them would work.. My initial question would be to ask the average
price to have someone build a Mercury 25 Mod powerhead complete. Then how much to have a "Stick" tower built that would adapt to the
Mercury on the top side and for a Yamato 302 for a gear foot.. Or is this a wrong way to build a 25 mod? Any help would greatly appreciated.

[STEVE FRENCH]

I'll argue about the best 25SS mod motor ever. I ran many and set records but by far the best was one Dick Engler built for the Hinton Nationals. This one had quite a bit of work on the transfer area in the crankcase and was superior to any Mod 25 we had with the possible exception of an Evinrude with an expansion chamber. I tested it and loved it and would have killed everyone at Hinton but Dick, being the kind and generous guy he was, let Kevin Ladd run it first in runabout. It was so good he blew over and blew up the powerhead before I got the chance. Eric Engler has or at least had the pieces after Dick died.

Sam, What class did Ladd run it in ??.....BMR?

Sam, What became of Mike Brusk??

[STEVE FRENCH]

There are about 40 Mercury 20 powerheads on ebay.. I do not know if any of them would work.. My initial question would be to ask the average
price to have someone build a Mercury 25 Mod powerhead complete. Then how much to have a "Stick" tower built that would adapt to the
Mercury on the top side and for a Yamato 302 for a gear foot.. Or is this a wrong way to build a 25 mod? Any help would greatly appreciated.

The Merc cost a little more to build than the OMC but it CAN be done.
If your not in a hurry and can find a few to do the work......... it will reward you.
Tom Johnston is full time builder and knows how to make this powerhead work from study'n all the "great builders" over the years. (He's a APBA inspector and has seen what works and wins also).
Ruck, Trident, and several others are great but they have a lot of projects and scheduling their talent might be a challenge.

Honestly, I would cut a check to Bob Schmitt for the Brusk motor complete (less than a new build) and win tomorrow......BUT it's your dime!

I have a couple Bayer towers that will work...
Are you going to run stock/25SS height or short MOD height?....I have both.

Yamato foot will be bullet proof, but may be a tad wide compared to a Merc/Hot-Rod/Sidewinder/OMC-A .......foots
Wider foot, more drag.
Did the Yamato 302 foot get voted in?....Good idea but will need a good Tom Cronk rework/nose cone/hatchet, and shaved as much as possible.

Also Carl Staron has a turn key, Rick Morris built (Builds mine and Doc Miller's), OMC/Hot-Rod foot ,Bayer exhaust, new built never raced avail.....AND a second Morris built OMC powerhead........JUST say'n!!

[Team B&H]

Sam, What class did Ladd run it in ??.....BMR?

Sam, What became of Mike Brusk??

Ladd ran it in BMR I think. I'm guessing that there was no 25MR by then. I'm not sure what happened recently with Mike Brusk. He sold his stuff a few years ago and came around for awhile but I haven't seen more recently. But then I've been going to more PRO races than stock/mod ones. I'm betting his parents will be at the Julien's 50th wedding party next week so I'll ask.

[STEVE FRENCH]

Here's a few on Ebay;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-MERCURY...65519867&rt=nc This is the price I like to pay..... Takes the older ignition and will need to cut and weld back together the top bearing support collar I use. Might get away without a top bearing support collar on a hydro but some were known to break on "bucking" in rough water, runabouts.
I have a laser shop with a CNC program'd laser cut them for me.....Last I knew he had a few avail from run I had made.
Might want to stick with the newer 1978-79 Ignition motors.......Thoughts Sam??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1976-MERCURY...65519867&rt=nc Price on this is a little high but it shows the top bearing carrier/mag mount I look for.....I think this is a 78-79 motor (Not the year stated in listing)......Collar support fits over the carrier to support the bolt tabs in rough water,,,,,Might get away without on a hydro but not a bucking runabout! LOL!!......Thoughts Sam??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181377543692...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Add pipe. advance+lock the mag, and GO!! ........
Later you might even add some compressed air to a cyl with a air chuck nipple welded to a spark plug base (remove the ceramic) this will keep shavings blown out while porting (give a good final rinse through spark plug hole to wash any that got through.)
Yah, Steve French engineering, but have seen it done in pits at a few large outboard drags with air files, and WORKED!!). I would start with as is, then square file the middle exhaust port(s) first and see if it turns up......I have left the outside ports round to help torque out of corners........Other's thoughts??......Dave/Lyle "the file" Mason??.........Sam??.........Vic Brinkman thoughts?
Later send a bare block to Tom Johnston or Ruck to have block heated and "Sqwished" to lower cc's and raise compression and proper machine porting.

Kind'a high$ to build a race motor out'a.....But complete and might get a few bucks back from remaining parts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/mercury-20-h...a46cdf&vxp=mtr

"~~There are about 40 Mercury 20 powerheads on ebay.. I do not know if any of them would work.. My initial question would be to ask the average
price to have someone build a Mercury 25 Mod powerhead complete. Then how much to have a "Stick" tower built that would adapt to the
Mercury on the top side and for a Yamato 302 for a gear foot.. Or is this a wrong way to build a 25 mod? Any help would greatly appreciated. "

Do you plan to race it or "Lake play"...and/or......Vintage meets?
Stock powerhead with pipe and MOD Bayer cast or stick welded steel tower with Yamato foot will give a good ride but lookout for rocks and golf clubs thrown, and "Your#1" hand gestures from your neighbors!!

Attend a few MODIFIED races with 25MOD attendance and talk to Steve Wheeler, Tom Sutherland/Miskeric, Vic Brinkman, Jeff Williams 5-P, Tom Johnston>> (He or Ruck could do your Harry Brinkman porting), and ask questions and....... LISTEN.

[Team B&H]

I don't know much about exact things to do with ports for MOD. I played mostly with building the boats and then tweaking with things. I left the serious engine work to Dick or Jerry Wienandt and just drove the 25 or C stuff they built. I never broke a top bearing cap on a Merc 25 but assembled my stock ones carefully with Loctite and then keep watching it! We did break flywheel flex plates. They never failed- or we caught them before that, A very light tap on the flywheel will produce a bell-like ringing tone and when cracks appear around the inner mounting bolts, it will sound like a thud instead. Problem solved when Del Snyder made some of 4130 steel slightly thicker than standard. We also had continuing issues with the stock Aluminum reed blocks but they could be easily resurfaced or were cheap to replace until the older, brass ones were allowed. Never had a preference for the newer or older ignition except the newer one looked neater. Both were adequate to fire our plugs with the side electrodes removed. Also had some interesting water-flow mods in our stock motors but those were irrelevant for MOD motors.

Only MOD motor I did build was a rat-rod type 44. There were a bunch of guys running really badly so I wanted to humiliate them and hopefully get them to run better. I got a frozen up 44 powerhead that we had to cut some rods and then pound out the pistons thru the plug holes with a punch and hammer just to get apart. Cleaned and honed the bores as best we could and ported the exhaust slightly with hand files, smooth out the intakes. Assembled with all used 25SS std pistons, rods and reed cages, D carburetors, on a stock D towerhousing but with complete MK-55 stock cowlings and a factory tiller handle. Once I figured out what props it liked (my C stock ones) it ran excellent. I ran it in maybe 5 races and always beat those riff-raff guys and finished 2nd to Jerry Wienandt. I'd drive back to the pits after the race steering with the tiller handle to tweak those guys. They were better the next season! But by then I'd given the motor to a friend to make into a real mod one with pipes and all.

[ZUL8TR]

I don't know much about exact things to do with ports for MOD. I played mostly with building the boats and then tweaking with things. I left the serious engine work to Dick or Jerry Wienandt and just drove the 25 or C stuff they built. I never broke a top bearing cap on a Merc 25 but assembled my stock ones carefully with Loctite and then keep watching it! We did break flywheel flex plates. They never failed- or we caught them before that, A very light tap on the flywheel will produce a bell-like ringing tone and when cracks appear around the inner mounting bolts, it will sound like a thud instead. Problem solved when Del Snyder made some of 4130 steel slightly thicker than standard. We also had continuing issues with the stock Aluminum reed blocks but they could be easily resurfaced or were cheap to replace until the older, brass ones were allowed. Never had a preference for the newer or older ignition except the newer one looked neater. Both were adequate to fire our plugs with the side electrodes removed. Also had some interesting water-flow mods in our stock motors but those were irrelevant for MOD motors.

Only MOD motor I did build was a rat-rod type 44. There were a bunch of guys running really badly so I wanted to humiliate them and hopefully get them to run better. I got a frozen up 44 powerhead that we had to cut some rods and then pound out the pistons thru the plug holes with a punch and hammer just to get apart. Cleaned and honed the bores as best we could and ported the exhaust slightly with hand files, smooth out the intakes. Assembled with all used 25SS std pistons, rods and reed cages, D carburetors, on a stock D towerhousing but with complete MK-55 stock cowlings and a factory tiller handle. Once I figured out what props it liked (my C stock ones) it ran excellent. I ran it in maybe 5 races and always beat those riff-raff guys and finished 2nd to Jerry Wienandt. I'd drive back to the pits after the race steering with the tiller handle to tweak those guys. They were better the next season! But by then I'd given the motor to a friend to make into a real mod one with pipes and all.

What continuing issues with the aluminum reed cage? Were you using the long stops to reduce reed flagging? Did the cages have the plastic reed stop pins? Did you surface the reed cage surfaces as Jerry W does with relatively rough sand paper in 2 directions at 90 degrees apart, holds oil and eases the reed landing, still seals well for the microsecond that they are closed at high revs?

[Team B&H]

Aluminum reed cages always chipped or pitted at the reed tips. I used both long and short reed stops but the short ones were earlier. Big thing was that I used the early 0.010 reeds, not the usual 0.012 ones. Maybe they were the problem but I figured the Merc guys had dynos so there must be some advantage to them. It wasn't much work to pull the engine apart after 3 weekends to check reeds and cage. That also let me re-tighten the top bearing cap and use new Loctite. I didn't learn about resurfacing reed cages from Jerry W but earlier from John Biever. We took out the pins and then used a figure-8 pattern on 320 and then 400 wet-dry paper on a flat surface. Then put the pins back in with Loctite on brass cages or just pushed the plastic ones back in th Al cages. We always ran 2 qts of oil to 5 gal gas so there was plenty of oil to cushion & seal. Biever's dad worked at the Merc boathouse so had plenty of direct experience there. And Biever's mom was a sister to Carl Kiekhaefer's wife.

[Merc1]

I still have that 25 Mod Dick Engler motor for sale. If anyone is interested make me an offer. It is a complete strong race ready motor.

[ZUL8TR]

Aluminum reed cages always chipped or pitted at the reed tips. I used both long and short reed stops but the short ones were earlier. Big thing was that I used the early 0.010 reeds, not the usual 0.012 ones. Maybe they were the problem but I figured the Merc guys had dynos so there must be some advantage to them. It wasn't much work to pull the engine apart after 3 weekends to check reeds and cage. That also let me re-tighten the top bearing cap and use new Loctite. I didn't learn about resurfacing reed cages from Jerry W but earlier from John Biever. We took out the pins and then used a figure-8 pattern on 320 and then 400 wet-dry paper on a flat surface. Then put the pins back in with Loctite on brass cages or just pushed the plastic ones back in th Al cages. We always ran 2 qts of oil to 5 gal gas so there was plenty of oil to cushion & seal. Biever's dad worked at the Merc boathouse so had plenty of direct experience there. And Biever's mom was a sister to Carl Kiekhaefer's wife.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the Merc guys had all the equipment to judge the reeds and hp however, an interesting note. Back in the early 1970's when the Merc 25ss came out and was available for the 25ssh class one of the very first tech rules that APBA introduced to reduce reed problems was to replace the 0.010" reeds and the short stops with the 0.012" reeds and the long stops using the 1973 Merc 200 part numbers. When I did the replacement I noticed that the cage surface was being damaged at the reed tip area, lucky that no reed tip damage had yet occurred. Once I replaced the reeds and stops that issue disappeared. I never noticed any performance change with the thicker reeds and the long stops. I suspect that APBA must have had some info from Mercury to do the rule change or was it just driver input? Not all the drivers did the change. Ran that Merc at 7100 rpm in many 25ssh race heats and lots of testing with no issues. Still have it with the replacement reeds and stops and run it with no reed issues on a hydro at 7100 rpm at 16:1 oil. I presently follow the Jerry Weinandt recommendation on the aluminum reed cage surfacing.

[Team B&H]

Sam, What class did Ladd run it in ??.....BMR?

Sam, What became of Mike Brusk??

Just saw the Brusk family last evening at the Julien's 50th Anniversary party. Mike is fine, has been working at the same place in the area now for 20+ years. His son is 21 and has a Camaro drag race car to fill up the garage instead of a boat trailer.

[Eric Engler]

I have not been able to locate my port specs but much of my stuff is in storage as my house is on the market. The only motor parts I have are a short block C MOD Merc and and OMC 15 Powerhead that I don;t know anything about other than Dick had it on a fishing motor he had.

If I wanted to get into the class I'd pick up that motor from Merc1 and take her apart and measure her up. There is a lot of knowledge and history in that motor that is not documented anyplace anymore.

Merc1 can you post some detailed pics? I'd love to see her again.

[lcp8410]

how fast is eric engler mercury 200? will his engine over run a stock 25xs?... hope u hear from u guy....

[Merc1]

Yes it is faster than a stock 25xs, It is a really good running engine. Eric I will try to get some pictures up in the near future.

[jp183w]

Eric,

Just so you know Icp8410 is talking about my pipe and the pipe tower I bought from you. Sure do miss
running 25mod with you and Mike. Was a great time.
Thanks Jim