Hard starting Yamato 102

[BillCNC]

Nice!
Bill thanks for starting this thread! its great info for anyone that isnt a yamato or boat guru.

Twern't nuttin, ... I only wish it was here before I showed up. This thread would have been exactly the kind of thread I would have been looking for.

Bill

[BillCNC]

The pic of the plugs in the head look like the threads are not exposed but the outer rim is and that might be ok. But if threads are exposed, IMO not good. Threads that are exposed allow carbon build up on the threads for difficult removal plus the threads heat up and create hot spots for preignition. If there are exposed threads I would get a spacer under the plug. Some will argue that the protruding plug will reduce the combustion chamber CC's. Maybe in competition it's an edge but for your use I would use the spacer if needed. Regardless pull the plugs on occasion to prevent carbon build up from restricting removal and to check condition. Don't over tighten

With a 12 degree transom that is much less than they run today. As a result engine height more critical to prevent slip and feed cooling water to the pickup. The 3/4" that the CSH class hydros run is OK for the steep transom angles (like 18 degrees) that are used because that is more setback and the water off the bottom will rise higher at the prop but even so that height the engines run hot at 7000 + for 3 laps.

The milk shake gear oil is a sign that the seals in the foot are leaking and need replacement. The top drive shaft seal is easy but requires that the foot be removed from the mid section and the powerhead be removed from the mid section. The seal is at the bottom of the mid housing and is pushed out with a long shaft. The prop shaft seal requires more work with pulling apart the prop shaft end of the foot. The seal is in the cone nut behind the removable bushing that can be seen at the rear of the foot. The cone nut is left hand thread and special tool needed to remove it.

To clean pistons you dont want carbon chips to get into the ring groves so use precaution to prevent that. I would use a carbon removal spray to melt carbon away with some moderate scraping with a tool that will not gauge the piston so try the ones you note. Clean residue well before putting the head on.

Are you using ethanol free fuel? Even if you are look into Mercury Quickleen to add to the gas to reduce carbon buildup on pistons and combustion chamber, etc. It is very concentrated and requires 1 oz per 5 gallons so a 12 oz bottle goes along way.

ZUL8TR,

What is the average transom angle now a days?

I have all the parts to fix the gear foot issue.

As far as fuel, ... I buy it at the same place I get it for all my vehicles. Not sure what it is, ... but where does one get ethanol free gas?

As far as cleaning off the tops of the pistons, ... I would bring the piston to TBC, scrape with soft tools and then vaccum the piston as I slooooowly make the piston go down. that's what I do with my motorcycles, ... works like a champ!

The threads are not exposed, just the upper lip. I could check into the "spark plug indexing washers" T Chance is talking about.

Regards
Bill

[BillCNC]

Get some "spark plug indexing washers". They come in various thickness so you can adjust as to how far down the spark plug fits into the head. I get mine from Summit Racing (summitracing.com).

T Chance,

Thanks, ... I ordered these ones, ... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-71910.

Bill

[stevegray]

No Bee in Bonnet, All the info on paper or the web is fine, All I said is to go to a race and see if You are really interested or want to be a boat racer

[ZUL8TR]

posts

March on and ignor the fools they contribute nada. Ask away, this thread is fun and we hope to get your boat running the best it can ..............

[BillCNC]

No Bee in Bonnet, All the info on paper or the web is fine, All I said is to go to a race and see if You are really interested or want to be a boat racer

Really, ... From what you said earlier [QUOTE] Hey hard starting Yamato ! Go to a **** race and quit trying to get info for free, meet the people and GET IT DONE[?QUOTE]

What you said before, ... to what you said just now, ... couldn't be further apart.

Hey hard starting Yamato ! Go to a **** race and quit trying to get info for free, meet the people and GET IT DONE!

Just what was I trying to steal and get for free, ... free advice from people who were offering it for FREE on the internet?

Like I said before, ... Do you know of any race in region 12 right now, ... or in any region in the US right now?

You might want to stop digging about now.

Bill

[BillCNC]

What is the average transom angle on the modern hulls, and the aft-plane length?

[Jack Stotts]

Hang in there Bill. I could not believe that guy's comment about getting information free and now he says he was only saying something else. I think he should apoligize, not put out more BS. We all know people like this guy.

Your questions have brought out a lot of info for all. The basic thing about on line info is if you don't like it-don't read it. Jack

[ZUL8TR]

specs

ZUL8TR,

What is the average transom angle now a days?

I have all the parts to fix the gear foot issue.

As far as fuel, ... I buy it at the same place I get it for all my vehicles. Not sure what it is, ... but where does one get ethanol free gas?

As far as cleaning off the tops of the pistons, ... I would bring the piston to TBC, scrape with soft tools and then vaccum the piston as I slooooowly make the piston go down. that's what I do with my motorcycles, ... works like a champ!

The threads are not exposed, just the upper lip. I could check into the "spark plug indexing washers" T Chance is talking about.

Regards
Bill

Based on what I have seen the CSH class use about 16 to 20 degree transom angles.

I have a 1982 Karelsen pickle hydro that Is an 18 degree transom. I run my yamato Y80 at 1/2 to 3/4" and it cools fine. The Wetback hydro I sent you a pic of has a 10 degree transom. When I raced it in the late 1970's in the 20ssh class with the Y80 a ran at 1" below the bottom . That was it to still get cooling. So that tells me now that less transom angle means deeper prop shaft for the Yamato on 10 degree transom boat. Yours might be different.

For ethanol try here

http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

These may be near you? All you need is the 87 octane.

As for the index washers use them to get the right depth. However the real reason for the index spacers is to align the open gap in the correct direction to the intake charge. Whw I was in to motorcycles and 1/4 mile drag cars we indexed plugs so the open gap was properly oreintated.

When I raced the hydros with the 2 cycle Merc 25ss in the 1970's I was indexing the projecting tip plugs. Thru trial and error I found that the open gap should nearly face the intake side of the engine for best performance.

[BillCNC]

Real Gas, ... looks like I'm smack dab in fake gas country. Those places are northern Ca, ... I'm southern Ca.

I made a few tools already besides the height and angle checker. The starter pulley can be used on either side and was made with .250" aluminum and the tail cone wrench is made from .375" aluminum. These were made from scrap aluminum cut on a band saw. 15 minutes each and saved me a bunch of money.

Any more tools I need to make? ... Just post the picture of what the tool is and I will make one.

Bill

[bill van steenwyk]

Re: The ethanol free gas web site

You want to exercise caution when using this site. The reason being is that like some other sites wanting to help by finding different things, it is USER driven, and sometimes VENDOR driven.

By that I mean that a lot of the places whose name appears as "ethanol free" places, have been put on the site by folks who either have no idea what the phrase means, or by unscrupulous station operators trying to increase profits. And then of course you have the young girl behind the counter who does not know ethanol gas from the other kind and could care less what she tells you.

I got ethanol laced gas several times 2 years ago in Arkansas and Missouri from stations listed on this site as ethanol free, and having stickers on the pumps stating it was. Perhaps that is what got them on the site to start with.
There are easy tests to determine whether gas has alcohol in it. Use Google if that is an issue for you and I am sure you will find them.

One of the best places I have found to purchase ethanol free gas (at least here in the midwest, the home of ethanol) is at stations close to lakes where a large amount of boating recreation takes place, or marinas actually on the lake. Of course at marinas, you usually pay a premium for gas, just because of all the regulations gas on water requires operators to meet.

If you can't be sure where you live in California, go over to the BRF site and send an e-mail to Ron Hill, the operator of that site. I would think if anyone would know about ethanol free gas in Ca., if would be Ron.


If push comes to shove, and you can only get a limited amount, like five gal or so, run the motor on the ethanol laced gas, and then clean it out when done running with av gas mixed with your regular oil. Av gs is supposed to be ethanol free in all its forms because of safety concerns. Will clean out the ethanol and if you mix it a little heavy on oil, will prevent rust and corrosion also.

[Bill Huson]

Testing for ethanol is easy. I have a marked tube I got from Aircraft Spruce - add water to the water line (about 1/2"), add fuel to the (about 3" near the top), thumb over top of tube - shake - let it settle in for a few minutes. If the clearly visible line betwixt fuel and water is HIGHER than the original water fill line, you have fuel with ethanol.

So. Cal is gonna be rough to find clean fuel. Try a marina, as in on the water marina. Yeah, aviation gas is ethanol free but * technically* the Av gas supplier can not sell to non-aviation users because Av gas has a tiny bit of lead in it.

[Bill Huson]

Testing for ethanol is easy. I have a marked tube I got from Aircraft Spruce - add water to the water line (about 1/2"), add fuel to the (about 3" near the top), thumb over top of tube - shake - let it settle in for a few minutes. If the clearly visible line betwixt fuel and water is HIGHER than the original water fill line, you have fuel with ethanol.

So. Cal is gonna be rough to find clean fuel. Try a marina, as in on the water marina. Yeah, aviation gas is ethanol free but * technically* the Av gas supplier can not sell to non-aviation users because Av gas has a tiny bit of lead in it.

[BillCNC]

What are the adverse effects of ethenal?

[bill van steenwyk]

What are the adverse effects of ethenal?

It attracts moisture from the air and "settles out" in the container it is in. Then after a period of time it will cause all the problems that water in or around metal causes, rust, corrosion, etc.

In addition, in fuel systems that do not have components involved in the fuel system that are meant to withstand alcohol based fuels it can actually "melt" fuel lines, rubber and plastic parts, and carry those pieces thru the entire fuel system and plug filters, injectors, etc.

The biggest problem with your engine, as it does not have a lot of the components that alcohol is bad for in the fuel system, is being left in the engine after shut down and attracting the moisture from the air and causing as stated all the problems that water on metal causes. It will "spot" your crank pins every place there is a bearing, cause rings to rust to cast iron or steel liners, etc. Then the next time you crank the engine you flake off the crank pin finish and eventually ruin the bearings and rods.

That is why I recommended if you cannot assure yourself of ethanol free gas at your local marina or near lake gas station, just get a small 1-2 gal container and get some AV gas, mix heavy on oil and run the motor for a few minutes after playing at the lake with this can attached to the carb with a short length of hose. It is the ethanol mix setting in the engine after running that does the harm, not the actual running on the ethanol mix. Marine engines are run on 10-15 percent mix here in the midwest all the time. Just get it out after running if you are going to store your engine for any amount of time.

Cars do not usually have the problem as they are sealed fuel systems and air does not mix with the fuel while in the tank like it used to before fuel injection/modern cars. Boats don't usually have the same type sealed system as cars, even fuel injected outboards.

More information can be found by Googling "ethanol in marine engines", or the Merc or other marine engine sites can give you good information also. There has been much discussion on this site and also BRF about the problems associated with ethanol/gas mix. Use the search function both here and there and you will learn a lot.