Cockpit Sides

[mdaspit]

Wondering why on some hydros the cockpit sides are so high?

What effect does this have on the performance of the boat?

Cockpit sides on C Stock boats seem to be really high compared to others.
Which in turn makes for a lot of Lexan up front?

Why are they designed that way?

[David_L6]

Wondering why on some hydros the cockpit sides are so high?

They're high on my boats so I don't fall out.

[Jack Stotts]

Over the years we've seen the boats change from ones that you rode on to ones you ride in. Look at some of the old photos posted on this site and notice how low some of the sides are. The new designs with pickleforks vice rounded noses and high sides have just progressed to their present state. Sure helps to keep you in the boat when you hook a sponson but sometimes results in a lot of wood on the waters surface . jack

[ian]

There is a school of thought that says higher cockpit sides, if re-inforced, act as a deflector during side impact.

[pops67g]

Tall motors mean tall transoms

The Yamato has a pretty tall tower. With the high transom that this requires it just makes sense to run the cockpit sides fairly straight forward from the top of the transom. The stiffness of the boat is probably helped by this as well. The cutout area for the driver to lean over etc. takes away from this a little but is necessary, and short guys like me can get in the things a bit easier too.

[Jeff Akers]

High sides like this ?

Not sure, but I think Tony was so far in the lead he decided to take a little nap.

Photo by Teri Ziemer

[johnsonm50]

I think if your pressed against the starboard side your already in trouble! You may go over it or thru it depending on height, strength etc. but I dont think it hurts the performance any and you do feel to be 'inside' with tall walls.

[mdaspit]

Runnin against the wind

Not sure, but I think Tony was so far in the lead he decided to take a little nap.

Photo by Teri Ziemer

Right. If you compare the photo of the white boat with your Avatar for example, looks like a lot of surface for resistance with all that Lexan in front. Whereas the boat in the Avatar looks much more slippery. Doesn't that hinder the performance?

[jpro60]

In the boat in the picture Jeff is laying down. That gives a lower cg, and lower profile to the wind like you noticed. For the most part lay down boats have only worked well in longer, more high-powered boats, though there have been some exceptions. Personally having driven a number of boats of various size, speed, shape, etc... I have developed a preference for taller cockpit sides. The reason being that it feels more like I'm an integral part of the boat rather than riding on it. It makes me feel less exposed, less like I'm going to fall out, and generally inspires more confidence to throw a boat in hard. This relates to a point Scott Reed made in a thread a month or so ago about boat design in which he pointed out that a driver being comfortable in a boat can make it go faster than any single design element. The other reasoning that I believe lies behind tall cockpit sides, and windshields, is that if you tuck down and get low it gets your body out of the wind. I personally think that a nice round shaped windshield will deflect the air a lot more cleanly, aerodynamically speaking, than the jumble of shapes that is a racers body if the air hits that. As a pilot that is what my understanding of aerodynamics has led me to.
All of that being said, arguably one of the most prolific and successful designs in outboard racing, B&H or Hemp boats, have a low cockpit side and windshield set-up. Perhaps somebody could weigh in on driving one of those.
Mike Perman
32-R, 1-US

[sponsonhead]

Woah! Check out the Big Brain on Perman!

Mikey, I love you, but sometimes you sound just like Sheldon on "The Big Bang Theory...."

[pops67g]

I'm sold on B&H raceboats.

I've had 8 of them (still have 5, sold one, destroyed 2). There might be prettier hydros with swoopier profiles out there, but as the saying goes, beauty is only skin deep. After talking to Sam a lot about his ever evolving design, there is almost nothing about his boats that is not functional. The twists and kinks and curves all are there for a purpose and they work. They haven't all been perfect but he wants them to be and some classes are extremely close. To put it simply, it is pretty cool to be able to run a DSH into the turns on a Nationals type course without having to back off.

[trident]

Tall Cockpit Sides

And let's not forget, Sam led the change to taller sides... I had two A&H hydros with lower sides, came up just to my hip. Nice high round windshield, but low sides. Yes, I fell out several times, and generally felt less secure riding on instead of in the boat. No criticism of Ron, I'm just a really big guy.

I asked Sam for taller 15" sides on my first B&H and he said it would mess up what came out of what sheet of plywood and take another sheet. I said I'll pay for the extra sheet. On my B&H's, the dashboard and even the throttle cut out is taller than most, but it fits me...

Loved it. Looked unusual at the time, but who cares, it worked. Had the tall sides ever since. My hips are a light press fit in a 15" wide cockpit, so if I can clamp my throttle arm on that port side, I'm secure.

Still have two of those early B&H boats... this goes back to about '81 or '82, so he's had the high sides for over a quarter century, by my count. To see what I mean, go back to pix of the boats of the '70's. Like kneeling on a skateboard for me.

Next thing, others are asking Sam for the taller sides and like all good ideas, other builders followed suit. Looks like the designs just keep evolving for the better. Sam's latest boats have a lower kneeling surface than those early boats which still had crossmembers and floorboards above the bottom, so in effect, they have even taller sides, even at 15", as the driver is lowered.

So, back to the original question, in my opinion, taller sides offer more crash protection and more security from falling out, especially for big drivers.

Jerry

[Dave M]

Comfy is Faster ?

In the boat in the picture Jeff is laying down. That gives a lower cg, and lower profile to the wind like you noticed. For the most part lay down boats have only worked well in longer, more high-powered boats, though there have been some exceptions. Personally having driven a number of boats of various size, speed, shape, etc... I have developed a preference for taller cockpit sides. The reason being that it feels more like I'm an integral part of the boat rather than riding on it. It makes me feel less exposed, less like I'm going to fall out, and generally inspires more confidence to throw a boat in hard. This relates to a point Scott Reed made in a thread a month or so ago about boat design in which he pointed out that a driver being comfortable in a boat can make it go faster than any single design element. The other reasoning that I believe lies behind tall cockpit sides, and windshields, is that if you tuck down and get low it gets your body out of the wind. I personally think that a nice round shaped windshield will deflect the air a lot more cleanly, aerodynamically speaking, than the jumble of shapes that is a racers body if the air hits that. As a pilot that is what my understanding of aerodynamics has led me to.
All of that being said, arguably one of the most prolific and successful designs in outboard racing, B&H or Hemp boats, have a low cockpit side and windshield set-up. Perhaps somebody could weigh in on driving one of those.
Mike Perman
32-R, 1-US

I would not agree in total. It will improve your ET, not your top speed. If you are comfy, you will drive it much better into and out of a corner. Anyone can drive the straight line, the corners are much more important, especially on the smaller and tighter courses. By todays standard, 15" is not that tall. My FEH had 17" tall sides.

[mdaspit]

High Sides

The reason being that it feels more like I'm an integral part of the boat rather than riding on it. It makes me feel less exposed, less like I'm going to fall out, and generally inspires more confidence to throw a boat in hard. This relates to a point Scott Reed made in a thread a month or so ago about boat design in which he pointed out that a driver being comfortable in a boat can make it go faster than any single design element.
Mike Perman
32-R, 1-US

Did I see a picture of your boat, and the cockpit side wasn't even cut out for you to lean out of? Throttle mounted inboard?

[jpro60]

I lean out

I've got cut-outs in all of my boats and lean out in the corners. But I do still make an effort to get low in a straight line.