2009 J Rules & Proposals

[Kev43V]

Just show us a J OMC motor that is factory box-stock, unmachined, unhoned and unblueprinted. Show us an OMC J that has survived and still has stock metal reeds. The Mercs are not allowed any machining that is not allowed on an OMC except decking the block and head because the Merc doesn't have a removable head.

LOL you are right there is no differance. and in the long run probably even makes a larger percentage of the motors closer to equal. due to reletively broad tolorances from manufacters.
I was thinking from a marketing perspective to potential new racers. but that too could be turned around by telling them otherwise they would spend MORE to keep buying motors untill they get one of the GOOD ones. That came off the line with certain specs closer to max/min as the case may be.

[reed28n]

Membership

I do not see the added value of moving Axs to Stock. (disclaimer I am still on my first cup of coffee after a late night) I only see J parents buying J and stock memberships so their kids can run both classes. With the intent of AXS being a transition class from J to A I feel it should stay in the J cat. It does nothing to resolve the HOC concerns that some people have voiced.

The cost of membership is an excellent point for a young driver. We would need to look at that, so there is not a tax on kids wanting to run J and AXS only.

No one seems to want to address the drivers that are 21 years old and up racing in the J category... it just seems silly for racers that have been racing for 40 years to masquerade around in the J category.

We would also get back to the intent of the Universal J which has been diluted by the AXS addition.

[bill boyes]

Request Stock Outboard to purchase one complete J Rig each year. Boat motor and safety equipment to be awarded to a Region that will put kids in it for the whole racing season and sell it at a discount to a start up family.

This way any head count numbers that benefit Stock from the AXS change in category will directly benefit the J classes which are the future racers for all of the categories and APBA can continue to promote the Mercury motors as they do now.

Cannot happen as the 'J' Committee has no budget as do other Category's

[reed28n]

Re read

Cannot happen as the 'J' Committee has no budget as do other Category's

I think you misunderstood. The suggestion was for Stock to foot the bill not J. We could also open it up to sponsorship and donations.

[bill boyes]

How about something like our Region 11 Nor Cal thing.

[reed28n]

Inboard

Isn't that what the inboard category did? 5 race ready rigs. Brilliant and proactive.

[Kev43V]

The cost of membership is an excellent point for a young driver. We would need to look at that, so there is not a tax on kids wanting to run J and AXS only.

No one seems to want to address the drivers that are 21 years old and up racing in the J category... it just seems silly for racers that have been racing for 40 years to masquerade around in the J category.

We would also get back to the intent of the Universal J which has been diluted by the AXS addition.

many of the older drivers in ASX (in our region anyway) are newer racers that want/need the boat time to develop their skills. Some of these drivers only have A rides. If FAH or FAR do not run at that race it is the only option they have to get extra boat time. When our team did this, we had no desire to go out and beat the kids in ASX. LOL besides the fact that most of the ASX drivers had better equipment AND better skills than we did. So the only way we were going to beat them is if they beat themselves. IE jump or DQed in another way.
the other case of older drivers in asx are drivers just entering so the class can run on weekends when some drivers that normally run, did not make it to the races.
In my mind if AXS is moved to stock there is no logical reason to keep it, other than entry fees to help make borderline races remain viable.
it would be fine with me if drivers over 16 or 17 or 18 (let the J's pick the age)did not receive points for ASX. the result would be the only older people running it would be for the above mentioned reasons

[reed28n]

Speed seperation

the other case of older drivers in asx are drivers just entering so the class can run on weekends when some drivers that normally run, did not make it to the races.

Maybe it is a regional issue but we have Nationally prominant competitors whose focus is this J Class, they are not running to make the class.....they are the class.

[Kev43V]

Maybe it is a regional issue but we have Nationally prominant competitors whose focus is this J Class, they are not running to make the class.....they are the class.

I think addressing an age limit on points would do more in that case than just moving the class to a differant catagory

When when i started the discussion on J depth. I assumed what I saw here was happening everywhere. It apparently is not. So there is no reason to address it nationally (in my mind) When Don A., Warbs and Sam H all tell me that lowering the height will not insure this situation will go away. I believe them. I have no doubt they have all forgotten more than I have learned in this sport in the few years I have been in it. oh and I do not think any of them have forgotten very much!
If there is a problem getting new drivers on plane then people step up to help them
(I am sorry you have not had the same experience in your region Scoontz. but that is actually a different issue, that has been addressed by the rules. in your case I would love to see a majority of drivers in MANY classes pony up and say at the drivers meeting." NO J testing today? we scratch" I think that suddenly time would be miraculously found to let the J's test as they are supposed to be able to do. as apposed to paying back a bunch of entry monies problem solved)
As someone once posted on a differant thread. the J catagory IS growing lets not break it trying to fix something that is not broken.

I like the idea of having regions and where possible clubs owning loaner rigs for getting new blood into the sport

[Howie Nichols]

Testing

I have always been able to talk our race committees into giving the J's test time, but by test time it was not go out and run laps. We would tell the kids, go out get on plane turn around and come back in. If they didn't get on plane we would have them try a different prop. At some events this seemed very tedious as they wanted to give the kids all the time in the world but after 5-10 minutes they had to say tough break, get it fixed, change something but green flag...

The way I interpret the rule after reading it over several times...

"SAFETY RULE 6 • Testing
Junior Hydro and Junior Runabout, as well as K PRO Hydro, must be given separate testing time, aside from all other classes."

is that if there is testing at a race then the J's & KPRO's have to have seperate water time. I don't see where it mandates that at each and every event the J's must have testing.

I plan on working on some wording to allow the testing of getting on plane at each event, and it will include a cap of how long / how many attempts they get.

I think they were very fair at the Nationals this year. The kids all got to go out and get on plane, come back in. Once it was time for the heat they gave them 1 free attempt. If everyone did not get on plane they black flagged it, gave the driver a chance to change and threw the green again once they were ready. This 2nd attempt was it though, if they didn't get on plane they were out for the heat.

[Skoontz]

Howie:

So, since we never have testing for any classes in region 12, you interpret the rule as since no testing was given to other boats, J won't be allowed as well?

Is that how I'm reading you?

[Tomtall]

Test time

Skoontz -

Don't mean to interupt here but just thought I would comment that the rule was more for saftey issues as Howie stated than to make testing a manditor thing. At all our races in MHRA classes do not have testing on race days which are on Sat./Sun.. If a parent has concerns about being able to get on plane the the day of the race the race director may allow a parent to have a brief moment before the races start for the day to see if the boat in question will plane out. It is done out of curtisey more than anything. If we have Friday "run at your own risk" testing the junior classes still only test by themselves with no larger classes on the water.
It's just done out of respect ----- or should be.

[bandit64061]

You Guys Are Scary!!!

LOL you are right there is no differance. and in the long run probably even makes a larger percentage of the motors closer to equal. due to reletively broad tolorances from manufacters.
I was thinking from a marketing perspective to potential new racers. but that too could be turned around by telling them otherwise they would spend MORE to keep buying motors untill they get one of the GOOD ones. That came off the line with certain specs closer to max/min as the case may be.

A beer Can probly has closer tollerances, but i sure like your racers for racers attitude, when that changes and appointees aren't related we'll see progress.
RichardKCMo

[bandit64061]

In NBRA!!!!

They have test time 1st day of racing quite a bit before the hot dogs blow there motors up, so what's wrong? I watch all.

That's all there is too that, and i'm not going to say anymore 'bout that.

[bandit64061]

Skoontz ,Read!!!

Howie:

So, since we never have testing for any classes in region 12, you interpret the rule as since no testing was given to other boats, J won't be allowed as well?

Is that how I'm reading you?

If you have time read the NBRA rulebook, sometimes change is good, what did i just say? I didn't mean as i'm sure it was int. entirely different as i meant , i somehow feel the need to spell it all out.? Makes me angy that some don't understand plain talk i don't think it'll be long before it's clearlly understood but till then i'm here for you man.
RichardKCMo.