Questions on fuel testing

[Al Peffley]

Buying Aviation Fuel

Be aware that even if you can buy fuel at the airports without being a mechanic or private aircraft pilot, the airport fuel station keepers usually will require that you bring a special safety gas container to fill up when the customer brings in a fuel container other than an aviation fuel cell in an aircraft. I could not buy fuel at my local airport if I brought in one of those plastic fuel jugs or a red plastic gas container -- they only accepted certain types of steel or aluminum safety fuel cans. This safety container requirement seems to be universal at airports in my area since AV gas is so flamable. You might save some of your precious car gas by finding out first if this safety container restriction is a requirement in your area. The added octane above 92 usualy does not give you much of an edge with lower compression outboard motors, but the AV fuel is also filtered more than automotive pump gas which reduces carb and plug fowling.

Al

[sam]

No airport near me requires that, so it isn't completely universal. AV gas is no more flammable than regular gas, its just a BS thing to discourage non aviation use. Unless you are only buying 2 or 3 gallons to use that weekend, the better more air tight container is a good idea any way. The ingredients of AV gas aren't filtered more, they are just different ... like a different cake recipe, brownies vs angel food.

[blueskyracer]

This has been the rule for about 3 years after Kevin Ladd's DQ (may God grant him peace):

The Stock Outboard category allows the use of pump gasoline, aviation gasoline and automotive racing gasoline. They may be used separately or mixed together. Pump gasoline is defined as any product which is offered for sale to the general public for use in passenger automobiles. The addition of any substance other than oil which is produced for use in consumer 2-cycle marine and off-road recreational products is strictly prohibited. See General Safety Rule 26. The race committee may take samples of any competitor’s fuel to be sent for analysis. The race committee may, when notice is given, have available at the race site a gasoline product at a reasonable price for competitors to purchase and use that gasoline.

Please review suggestion #2 above.


BTW: The difference between leaded and unleaded fuel of the same brand/octane rating is night and day. You should treat it as a different fuel and heed suggestion #1. See what happened to Mr. Boyes [post #22] as proof of this proposition. Eddie.

If the rule is quoted correctly than I see a contradiction. It say fuel offered for sale to the general public. What is being offered for sale contains a percentage of ethanol. End of problem.

[Skoontz]

Fuel Cans, and availablity

The fuel can rule is just some more of OSHA knit wittery passed about 1999. Directed toward business that fuels small equipment. Where by all cans must have a ridiculously complex cap and anti spill spout and a fuel lining similar to a racing fuel cell. Along the mindset that all small business can afford it because they are all swimming in money and should just step up or shut up, we trashed 24 plastic cans we never had a problem with at a cost of $8.99 each, and replaced them with OSHA cans at a cost of $212.00 each. Every fuel station is supposed to enforce this rule, no one ever does. In the sense that homeowners get fuel for lawnmowers and boat motors, the fines are on the fuel station and the homeowner is exempt as usual.

At an airport environment, the fuelers think more along the lines of a commercial level, and get the common sensical training all business is supposed to give their employees required by OSHA rule.

Each facility will have different policies, and, one may call you on the safety can, the other, as Sam has noted, may not.

Bill called one issue with the California AV gas issue, the other is the envirowacks don't want this or any fossil fuel on the market at all, let alone for planes, so, in CA, along with the tax issues, are environmental compliance issues.

I've been to 4 of the major airports in SoCal that sell AV gas, and, they will not distribute it to anything other than an airplane wing, or into an OSHA can to a certified mechanic, unless of course you get some fueler sympathetic to racing causes.

Check your local small plane airport. Dupage Airport in West Chicago, IL. used to sell it all the time to racers and performance freeks for example, matter of fact that's where dad sent Jimbo and Goat to get fuel when they ran a local event.

I only wish we had the old Sunoco stations as in the past, where you dial an octane. Sunoco Blue 260, .38 a gallon!

Anyhow with respect to availability in this thread, you gotta check for yourself.....

Here, forget it.

[Al Peffley]

Alternative Gasoline Sources

Union 76 in Washington State has alternative racing fuels available at some of their stations (incuding Trick fuel). Some of their stations even offer non-ethanol pump gas for cars, but they are in the minority on the upper left coast. Recent Mod Divisionals held here at Olympia last weekend required non-ethanol fuel. Such an outdated rule..., but as my wife says - "That's Racing."

I would not buy AV gas at an airport that does not use a good filter system for anything that flies and yes, AV gas has a different formula than the crap they sell me for my car (that does not store well for more than a month any more and collects more water in the tank.)

Al

[Dave M]

Josh, Again

Holy Crap man !! over 8 bucks a gallon !! Talk about not using vasoline....... good grief. Hope it includes a reach around.

I am fortuante to have a Speedway station here in town that sells the Torco 110 Octane race fuel in the pump. Small short hose that can only be filled in a gas can. Last cost was about $$5.75/gal. I take this knowing it is legal non belended fuel (fingers crossed each time) and fill up two gallons. I then go accross the street to the BP station and get two more gallons in the same can of the illegal gas. According to VP caluclations, this should bring the octane down to about 100 or 95. This is perfect for most Mod engines. Not the rice burners though, they like as low as you can get. Now I mix my oil in and so far this year we have checked out between -50 and -25 on the digitron. It is a PITA to go through this for race gas but since the powers to be will never figure out a solution or rule to compensate for the pump gas, we are stuck being creative in fuel choices, or rather fattening up the stock holders of the big oil.

Tell Erin I have a whole case of beer for her if y'all ever decide to come over to the dark end of the pits for more than 10 minutes !

See you Saturday A.M. You might even get me to PB for you if an ice cold Labatts is on hand.

[RandY Aveline]

just my opinion but i say if it reads legal on the meter then it flies who cares where it is purchased !!

as for using gas with the 10% ethanol i feel it should not be allowed at club races then disallowed at an nationals event

it almost lets 1 think its ok to take advantage at 1 event then not ok at a national event
but then i guess it still falls back on the digitron

like i said A Can Of Worms LOLOL WHEEEEEE can we come back next year Mommy and do it again huh huh can we ?? LOLOL

we have a sunoco not far from me in Indianapolis with the so called dial an octane but even the racing fuel they have contains ethanol.

so it is not an option for me

I can only recall using av gas 1 time. i went to Rochelle Ill and had no fuel what so ever.
i went to the small local airport near the Rochelle race location the guy was very nice i used plastic gas cans and got ohhh 10 gallons i believe it was.

i think the price was approx 3 bucks a gallon more than pump price.

he never mentioned any thing about containers and i had no problem what so ever

not to say i wouldn't have problems at a large airport but other than price it was a pleasant experience

it is most likely a different experience where ever you try.

Ed
so the fuel for the stock category the pump gas with ethanol is legal for all events ??
Including divisional s and nationals ?

Ed i have not forgotten the picture you want i will get it in the mail today

Randy

[jkimble12]

See you Saturday A.M. You might even get me to PB for you if an ice cold Labatts is on hand.

Erin is going to the store tomarrow to stock up. I will tell her to grab some if we have it here. If not I will get some in Constantine. If that is all it cost to have you PB for me, then consider yourself hired!

[David_L6]

Josh,

What Mod motor do you have?

[14-H]

Response to a couple of questions

***
The Stock Outboard category allows the use of pump gasoline, aviation gasoline and automotive racing gasoline. They may be used separately or mixed together. Pump gasoline is defined as any product which is offered for sale to the general public for use in passenger automobiles. The addition of any substance other than oil which is produced for use in consumer 2-cycle marine and off-road recreational products is strictly prohibited. See General Safety Rule 26. The race committee may take samples of any competitor’s fuel to be sent for analysis. The race committee may, when notice is given, have available at the race site a gasoline product at a reasonable price for competitors to purchase and use that gasoline.

***Eddie.

This is the rule in the rule book; your fuel must still pass all of the tests listed in the tech manual. One of them is the Digatron meter. If you have alcohol in your fuel, it may not pass even though you bought it at a pump. That is why mixing with race gas is permitted. See page 2 of this thread regarding how Mr. Boyes does this. Eddie.

[jkimble12]

David,

I have a OMC three holer.

Josh Kimble

[jkimble12]

Dave, it's Erin here...

I'll take you up on that offer of beer. Make Kringle buy it, as payment for his little stunt at the last race

See ya' in a few days!!

-Erin

[david bryan]

IS THEREa race at newport this weekend

[Skoontz]

Dave:

They are running off shore from Newport to Catalina.

There is another race at Chowchilla, i.e., the Thrilla at Chowchilla with F-2 and F-3 and all stock classes along with Crackerboxes.

After that, Longbeach Marine Stadium, August 2-3

[Dave M]

Will Do Erin

Dave, it's Erin here...

I'll take you up on that offer of beer. Make Kringle buy it, as payment for his little stunt at the last race

See ya' in a few days!!

-Erin

I will let Kringle pick out the case of beer using his own tried and true methods..: