Questions on fuel testing

[ricochet112]

At Newberg OR I tested fuels for fuel of the day. Chevron reg with no oil was +60, with OMC XD30 (non-syn) at 25:1 tested +65, with XD100 (syn) at 50:1 it was slightly less. Chevron super was +80 and +84 with oil, someone else's sample. Anything + is illegal. Gas in Oregon has 10% ethanol.

Alcohol attacks rubber and plastics, fuel pumps and carb kits will need replacing, IMO, yearly. I use CRC Marine fuel stabilizer and drain the engine and gas tanks after every weekend.

This country lost it's moral compass when we started growing food for our cars, thank you "Big Oil"!

[bill boyes]

Us racers in left wing California has been dealing with ethanol in gasoline for about 20 years. Here is what i do.
use aviation gas: note some airports will not let you in nor sell to you unless you you have a pilots or FAA mechanics certificate do to fuel taxes and security.
Use fuel of the day if the club has it on the sanction.
Use race fuel 110 octane leaded. Trick,VP,ERC, Unocal etc. blend it with 87 octane pump gas 50/50. when I do this the meter is around -30 using Red Line oil. On hot days and at championship races I use 100% race fuel. I only mix what I need for the day 2 &1/2 gal. Some racers mix even less like 1 Gal at a time.

[G Stillwill]

The Sunoco GTX unleaded 98 racing gas will pass everytime and runs good in the rice burners and Hotrods but havent had great sucess with it in the 15 Merc but heavent messed with changing jets either, seemed to run fatter acording to the plugs.. Its the same gas they run in the Cup cars now.

[David_L6]

I ran VP C12 for several years because it always passes inspection. Has more octane than is needed for 4 cylinder Mercs though (108 Motor Octane). The last few times I've raced I ran 100 octane LL AV gas. The AV gas runs just as well in my motors as the VP and I can buy AV gas closer to home than the VP. Last week AV gas was $5.63 / gallon where I buy it. I haven't bought any C12 in a couple of years.

The Sunoco GTX unleaded 98 racing gas will pass everytime....

I'm going to see if I can find some of that near here. I'd like to try it. Thanks for the tip George.

[14-H]

Be smart

Don't get thrown out in inspection because of fuel. It's a really bad way to end a good two heats of racing. Here's a few tips:

1) ALWAYS check your fuel in inspection before you race if you are not buying from a known source or you switch oils;

2) Read the rule book and tech manuals to understand what you can and can not do (they are online at www.apba-racing.com);

3) If you are able to, buy a racing fuel that you test and jet your engine for. You can buy some as low as 100 octane for low-compression classes. This way, you will always know that your fuel is legal;

4) If you can't get your hands on race gas, at least try to find a local source that consistently buys fuel from the same place. That way you know what you are getting. If you do this, though, you still ought to have your gas tested once you get to the race site as some gas stations may switch who they buy their fuel from.

5) NEVER leave your gas can in the sun. First, it makes all the "good stuff" in the fuel evaporate and, second, it can make fuel which normally reads legal, read illegal on the Digitron meter if the fuel becomes hot; another good idea is to wait until right before your heat to put fuel in your boat/engine especially if you have an aluminum fuel tank for the same reason: it may get hot from the tank being in the sun;

6) Don't let ANY water get into your fuel. This might seem obvious, but even fueling in the rain can get some into the tank and any amount of water will not only hurt performance but may cause your fuel to read illegal on the meter (water is a type of alcohol in chemistry parlance);

7) Contact Brent Backus and get a "Pater Racing Fuels" sticker for your boat so everyone will think you know what you are doing and you will freak them out.

Good luck. Eddie.

[Kev43V]

Josh as other people wiser than I pointed out on previous posts. There is problem with allowing fuel of the day for anything but local races. in a nut shell. an unscrupulous person could use power boosting illegal and also hazardous things in otherwise legal fuel. giving them an advantage while not testing any higher on the Digitron than the "fuel of the day".
therefore i would prefer to have to buy AV gas rather than allow fuel of the day. Just my 2 pesos worth

[bill boyes]

14H posted some very good information That is just good boat racer practice.
Another thing to remember is never assume all race gas is/will be legal under the fuel rules. Has happened to me.
Was using ERC 110 leaded and went to another speed shop to buy fuel and they did not have 110 leaded. They had ERC 100 unleaded. Will heck I do not need the 110 octane and leaded fuel in an outboard anyway and this WILL be better. WRONG!!! It tested +85 and my son got pitched after winning CSH against some top west coast teams. The thing is i assumed something and did not test our fuel before the race. Lesson learned here. I have always tried to learn from the
mistakes of others along with my own.
BTW I called the owner of ERC the next week and he gave me an education about race fuel.

[TONY TRUJILLO r11]

When You Are Thinking Of Race Fuel And Which Octane Is Better Dont Think Higher Is Better I Dont Care How Much Compression Your Motor Has If You Dont Have The Spark To Fire That Fuel It Is All A Waste , Most Of The Ignition Systems We Use On A Lot Of The Engines Are Not That Strong Remember These Are Mostly Fishing Motors Which We Are Trying To Race With .
When I Ran Av Gas And Redline Synthetic Oil 28-1 The Digatron Never Changed It Always Read -70
Use A Plastic Fuel Tank If You Have An Aluminum Fuel Tank And The Digatron Sensor Touches The Side During Testing It Will Show A Positive + On The Gauge .
Good Luck

[jkimble12]

Kevin,

I am also not a big fan of the "fuel of the day" theroy because you go to a race on one weeknend and buy fuel that is legal then go to another race the following week and the fuel that was legal the week before is now illegal. Now I have fuel and EXPENSIVE two-stroke oil that is going to do me no good on that weekend. Ya, I could run the extra through my weedeater and leaf blower, and it would smell real good, but at $9.00 a pint of Klotz I don't like the smell that much. I thought we were trying to keep the expenses of racing down to encourage more participation. It sounds to me that AV gas is the way to go and I do not have to second guess myself.

Dave,

I called VP yesterday and talked with their tech Nick and he recommended using the RC 10 unleaded fuel that they have and he said it will pass any fuel test. It is the best non-oxigenated race fuel that they sell. However, it cost $8.53 per gallon before I put oil in it. It about made me sick!!! The methanol I buy for the PRO boat is half the cost!

Tell Hunter and Kringle, Kody can't wait to play in the water again. Oh and by the way tell Kringle Erin's leg says hello.

[sam]

We have 2 completely different scenarios going on. One is Stock Outboard where the rule says "standard pump gasoline" ... in the narrowest interpretation that would exclude AV gas and specially formulated racing gas. As others have noted, Stock motors are based on fishing motors without significant changes, they don't benefit from higher octane of AV gas or most racing gas formulas. My old lawn mower ran slower and bogged under load when using up old AV gas; it just didn't need the extra. It would be possible to do the "everyone bring gas and mix it all in a 55 gallon barrel" think Karters do. Everyone would have the same gas, no advantage, no disadvantage.

The second scenario is Mod where the rule just says "gasoline" and then goes on to specifically include street gas, unleaded and leaded racing gas and AV gas. Some Mod classes have no restriction on increasing compression and can take advantage of high octane fuel. We could not mix everyone's gas in the same barrel and have the classes with fewer restrictions run on that gas.

Gas that "tests OK one week and tests bad the next week" probably had at least some alcohol to begin with and absorbed water during the week. Water, like alcohol is a polar molecule and shows on the test meter as an illegal additive, even though it probably has no benefit. Water will not mix directly with gas, but it will easily mix with alcohol and as long as there isn't too much water, will stay mixed with alcohol in gas. Alcohol mixes so well with water it sucks it out of the air. The days of keeping gas from weekend to weekend to race with are probably gone. It was the cause of my strikingly poor performance (DNF) at Lock Haven.

I would hope that anyone working in inspection at an APBA race knows to not let the probe touch the sides of a metal fuel tank without being told.

If we changed the rule to require AV gas, no one would be at an advantage, everyone would be at the same disadvantage. It could put a big damper on speed record increases in Stock, depending on the sensitivity of the motors. There are locations that are pretty far from airports. The town where I grew up closed their local airport, the next closest one is about 50 miles away. If someone lived there, they'd have to take off from work to buy gas to race. Where I live now, the airport where I buy my AV gas is right next to the local grocery store and is more than happy to sell a few extra gallons ... about $5.70 now (street gas is $3.99).

[Tomtall]

Well -----------

We have 2 completely different scenarios going on. One is Stock Outboard where the rule says "standard pump gasoline" ..

Sam - you might want to check that one out under the NEW as of 06 "Stock outboard" tech notes. It has changed.

It now allows pump gas,aviation gas and automotive racing gas.

[14-H]

Sam - you might want to check that one out under the NEW as of 06 "Stock outboard" tech notes. It has changed.

It now allows pump gas,aviation gas and automotive racing gas.

This has been the rule for about 3 years after Kevin Ladd's DQ (may God grant him peace):

The Stock Outboard category allows the use of pump gasoline, aviation gasoline and automotive racing gasoline. They may be used separately or mixed together. Pump gasoline is defined as any product which is offered for sale to the general public for use in passenger automobiles. The addition of any substance other than oil which is produced for use in consumer 2-cycle marine and off-road recreational products is strictly prohibited. See General Safety Rule 26. The race committee may take samples of any competitor’s fuel to be sent for analysis. The race committee may, when notice is given, have available at the race site a gasoline product at a reasonable price for competitors to purchase and use that gasoline.

Please review suggestion #2 above.


BTW: The difference between leaded and unleaded fuel of the same brand/octane rating is night and day. You should treat it as a different fuel and heed suggestion #1. See what happened to Mr. Boyes [post #22] as proof of this proposition. Eddie.

[14-H]

***
7) Contact Brent Backus and get a "Pater Racing Fuels" sticker for your boat so everyone will think you know what you are doing and you will freak them out.

Good luck. Eddie.

Further comment: 95% of the fun in this sport is kicking your competitor's azz and making him/her think the reason you beat him/her is different than the real reason!

[Skoontz]

We run #1 Diesel fuel with no oil at all at a Cetane rating of 40 in the Miss KTDoodle..... The motor smokes a little bit, (no biggie) but that way we don't have to fog mosquitos at race sites.


Seriously, I've been following and lurking in this thread, and just wanted to thank all for the great input, we have really learned allot.

[14-H]

We run #1 Diesel fuel with no oil at all at a Cetane rating of 40 in the Miss KTDoodle..... The motor smokes a little bit, (no biggie) but that way we don't have to fog mosquitos at race sites.

***

Now that's funny, right thar! I don't care who y'ar!