Where do we draw the line?

[washburn]

Agreed, we should always be open to discussions like this. We need to weigh all the pros and cons. Racing will probably never be cheap but we need to make sure that it is as affordable as possible to compete on a level playing field. It is my understanding that Aftermarket ignition, gaskets and bearings are currently legal in the SST classes. These items should offer the drivers some savings. There are some less expensive cast pistons out there but I doubt that they would hold up any where near as well as the 120 Merc piston from Art. If Forged were legal, I would suggest that they were top pinned and which means a special run. We would also neeed to discuss in detail specs for the piston, weight, ring height, thickness of rings, piston port sizes and shapes etc. If multiple pistons are legal we also open up having pistons pulled to make sure that they meet the spec. This could make inspections a lot longer than we would like.

[nbass]

Under $7,500 for a new SST45 Engine

Bass Bros., traditionaly OPC guys spend their dollars a little more easy than stock outboarders do. Another market for your engine would be fantastic. You might begin to see some profits after all the issues in stock. One thing to look at is your gearbox. Do you feel it would hold up with the in and out of the water the OPC boat do ? I think it would hold up decent, but I am not the designer. I am betting you could somehow adapt a trim system to your tower housings now. Might be a lot less tooling than a whole new system.

And to boot, all the guys that currently race a DSH Tohatsu, could potentially be a cross over to SST45. Talk about having it good !! Race Mod, Stock, and OPC with the same engine ! That sounds pretty cool if you think about it. Boats for SST45 are pretty cheap, used boats go for about the same as a big hydro new.

After some thought about the above, some research and preliminary design work, we can provide a 45SS engine for something under $7,500 depending on the purchaser’s options. The product would be basically the same as the Tohatsu M50D21 D-stock version we manufacture, but with an enhanced lower unit.

We researched and purchased some alternate, but expensive lower unit bearings we believe are suitable for a SST45 lower unit. It would increase the cost of the lower unit, but the overall external dimensions would be the same, hence a legal D-stock unit.

We encourage all Tohatsu M50D2 owners to weld the crankshaft pins as under heavy loading and rough running the crankshaft may be forced out of alignment. The cost to have the pins welded by our recommended source is about $200 if the owner disassembles the engine and ships the crankshaft without pistons attached.

We can provide the engine with electric start and no recoil, or for a few more dollars we can provide a manual start and add the electric start system. We assume the aftermarket racing hydraulic kick out used by OPC drivers can be reasonably adapted to our kick-out system.

If someone wishes to take up the cause for SST45, we need that person to invest in the prototype, run it and provide feedback on performance and reliability. Concurrently, we would expect the OPC commission to endorse the project and support the development of an alternative 45SS engine.

Anyone want to take up the cause?
Neil Bass

[Howie Nichols]

Neil,
Thanks for taking the time to research this. I copied your post and sent it to our OPC Chairman Mike Wienandt for his review. Sounds promising, hopefully it will give us another option.

[Howie Nichols]

Neil,
The OPC Chairman has asked that you submit the papers to him for review and he will send them out to the commissioners.

Mike's email is apbaopc1@charter.net

He feels this would be the best way for us to look over the engine and figure out where it is best.

[nbass]

Bass Machines OPC Proposal

Neil,
The OPC Chairman has asked that you submit the papers to him for review and he will send them out to the commissioners.

Mike's email is apbaopc1@charter.net

He feels this would be the best way for us to look over the engine and figure out where it is best.

I am glad to work with Mike and will provide a proposal for all to review. However, I do not want to make this a fight to get the Bass-Tohatsu into OPC as it was (is) with the stock outboards. I was asked if we could provide a suitable OPC engine, and I think we can do that. We are willing to work cooperatively with the OPC commissioners, but we do not have the financial backing to make big promises or big investments. Our policy is to provide a good product for a reasonable price and have customers that are supportive and happy. For that reason, we need an APBA OPC sponsor who will support the product and will be a communicator and representative to the OPC community. I will propose that such a sponsor is a volunteer or is appointed.
Respectfully,
Neil Bass

[nbass]

Not a viable OPC solution

Per an email from the OPC chairman, for a number of reasons I am wasting my time. I agree and will not pursue this any further unless someone wants purchase something. Thanks to all for your interest. The bearing research was a good exercise that may be of value in other applications.
Respectfully,
Neil Bass

[race4kaos]

that's odd...
i thought the OPC commission would be the people deciding on issues like this (the chairman doesn't even get a vote). i suppose if he keeps it off the agenda he trumps all the commissioners?
i'd still like to see the information and understand the details of his comments-

[HRTV]

Per an email from the OPC chairman, for a number of reasons I am wasting my time. I agree and will not pursue this any further unless someone wants purchase something. Thanks to all for your interest. The bearing research was a good exercise that may be of value in other applications.
Respectfully,
Neil Bass

What the ----??

[sam boat 440]

Information

I would like to see the information and details also

[Ascencio Racing]

what is the required protocal?

I am confused. How are these things supposed to work? In this case (please correct me if i am wrong, seriously, some of my assumptions might be incorrect) we have a potential supplier for new motors for the sst45 class which was the biggest class at OPC Nationals, I believe two years running and many champboat races when they are invited. My point is lots of boats/drivers. An email was sent to Mike W. to look at a possable solution for motors in the class, well lets call it an indication of interest. He says "bad idea" when, if I read this correctly... if the commissioners bring it to the table, he has no say? Is this correct? race4kaos (shouldn't that be race41kaos) post seems to indicate it is not his role to, and this is where i would like some clarification, it is not his role to determine if it is a bad idea? Or does the commissioners vote and he only gets involved to break a tie? Or it is his call and his alone? That is my main question.

Finally, what was the reason for the not a good idea? Neil said "i agree" when posting the response. Neil, was that tongue in cheek or where there issues that led you to agree that your particular motor/idea would not be a good solution? Thanks for any insight gents.

[Ascencio Racing]

what is the required protocal?

I am confused. How are these things supposed to work? In this case (please correct me if i am wrong, seriously, some of my assumptions might be incorrect) we have a potential supplier for new motors for the sst45 class which was the biggest class at OPC Nationals, I believe two years running and many champboat races when they are invited. My point is lots of boats/drivers. An email was sent to Mike W. to look at a possable solution for motors in the class, well lets call it an indication of interest. He says "bad idea" when, if I read this correctly... if the commissioners bring it to the table, he has no say? Is this correct? race4kaos (shouldn't that be race41kaos) post seems to indicate it is not his role to, and this is where i would like some clarification, it is not his role to determine if it is a bad idea? Or does the commissioners vote and he only gets involved to break a tie? Or it is his call and his alone? That is my main question.

Finally, what was the reason for the not a good idea? Neil said "i agree" when posting the response. Neil, was that tongue in cheek or where there issues that led you to agree that your particular motor/idea would not be a good solution? Thanks for any insight gents.

[nbass]

My reason for agreeing

I am not going to fight with the chairman or anyone else to get our engine approved. We have a good product, we can and would make some enhancements for SST45, we would expect someone to purchase and test our enhanced version. We would work with the class rep testing the engine. We will not go head-to-head with anyone in a fight to get it approved for SST45 or any other class where it may fit. I see no reason to prepare a proposal, we are not Mercury Marine. Either the racers want it or don't want it. It appears that the chairman does not want it or thinks it is a waste of time, then it probably is. He writes:

HI Neil

There is a couple of challenges for the 50D to come into OPC. We certainly will review any proposal. But I want you to be aware of some things you may not know.

The Sport C class and or people on the internet have complained for years about the lack of engines. We have a racer who made a deal with Tohatsu to bring in new model 40C engine from Europe. We made it know this was available. Not one person even contacted us and asked what would one cost. So I caution you about people on the internet that talk and don’t even race the class. A couple of years ago we did approve a new engine for that class and nation wide only one appeared. The Johnson Three cylinder. Attached is the Sport C spec sheets. This is our standard system of specs that will not be changed. Check our website www.opcrace.com look at the rule book rule 22, 23 and 24. This is the system needed for an engine in OPC

The 50D with a standard lower unit 15” would fit best in the Sport C class. Cubic inch limits could be changed to allow newer engines like this.

The reason I mention Sport C is the power out put. The Tohatsu 40 C correctly prepared for racing in OPC is 50 hp.

The SST 45 class was over 60 hp with it came out in 85. Back them my brother ran over 90mph on a hydro as he won every race including the national the first year on that engine. Then they banned hydros. Since then with rule changes the engine we prepare here that wins in the SST 45 class make from 70 to 75 hp. So to prpose the 50 D to the 45 class is a waste of time.
Also just an FYI, our SST 60 engines are 90 to 100 hp. Our classes are defined by size not HP.

I hope this helps you out. But know all this I don’t think the fits our category as any engine with a racing lower unit.

If the engine was proposed in SC, there would be testing data needed. All new engines would require a full Homologation with support from the manufactures rep.

Mercury will be paying for and doing two new engines this year. Also if the 50D can only be approved by membership vote if/when the commission vote in favor.

Hope this helps you out. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Mike