Where do we draw the line?

[nbass]

Market New OPC Racers

There is a potential for us to bring a number of larger OPC type Tohatsu products to the racing fans. Range includes 50, 70, 90, and 115 HP engines. We could go with the non-EPA carbureted models or move into the EPA fuel injected models that cost a little more but are readily available. We could develop a racing lower unit that would work on all models or produce several models of lower unit, but what would be the market? APBA would probably insist that the new engines be run in an existing class where only new racers would be interested in purchasing. From our experience that amounts to very few sales and the initial investment is never really recouped. But, new engines would draw new racers.

I suggest OPC look to the current products available at the local bread and butter boat shop and start some new classes that do not run special racing equipment. Maybe start with total stock 50HP and 70HP classes. That should draw new racers. Our experience with the D-stock Tohatsu is it brought out retired racers and new racers, and will do much more if APBA quits messing with the parity rules.
Sincerely,
Neil Bass

[HRTV]

There is a potential for us to bring a number of larger OPC type Tohatsu products to the racing fans. Range includes 50, 70, 90, and 115 HP engines. We could go with the non-EPA carbureted models or move into the EPA fuel injected models that cost a little more but are readily available. We could develop a racing lower unit that would work on all models or produce several models of lower unit, but what would be the market? APBA would probably insist that the new engines be run in an existing class where only new racers would be interested in purchasing. From our experience that amounts to very few sales and the initial investment is never really recouped. But, new engines would draw new racers.

I suggest OPC look to the current products available at the local bread and butter boat shop and start some new classes that do not run special racing equipment. Maybe start with total stock 50HP and 70HP classes. That should draw new racers. Our experience with the D-stock Tohatsu is it brought out retired racers and new racers, and will do much more if APBA quits messing with the parity rules.
Sincerely,
Neil Bass

Hey Neil,

Take a look at this post I made a few weeks back and please comment. I still dont get it, I am very confused on this issue. Who is it that will not allow these motors to be run here in the states as race motors APBA ? EPA ? can anyone help me understand this ? all the motors appear to be stock long shaft motors from the corner dealer.

http://www.hydroracer.net/forums/sho...ght=understand

Thanks

[CSR4C]

OPC once had classes like: D, E, G, J Production. Sport D, E, G, J. All with standard motors based on engine size. They only have Sport C now with an out of production motor.
They need to return to their "roots"

[MN1]

OPC once had classes like: D, E, G, J Production. Sport D, E, G, J. All with standard motors based on engine size. They only have Sport C now with an out of production motor.
They need to return to their "roots"

It was very easy in the old days to find motors that fit into OPC racing classes. Mercury, OMC and even Chrysler made motors that were all very close in cubic inches and fit in a certain class.
Now it's hard to find a certain size motor (cubic inch) that would be similar from another manufacturer.
Also, you could find motors from Sport C to Sport J in a short shaft. Now it seems like if the motor is over 40 or 50 hp they are all long shaft.
It's defiantly going to take lots of thought to set the rules for these types of motors.And working with (or persuading) the manufacturers to get involved.
I think Honda has had some interest. I'm sure they (and all companies) will want to know what we can do for them and what will be the return on their investment.
Mark

[HRTV]

It was very easy in the old days to find motors that fit into OPC racing classes. Mercury, OMC and even Chrysler made motors that were all very close in cubic inches and fit in a certain class.
Now it's hard to find a certain size motor (cubic inch) that would be similar from another manufacturer.
Also, you could find motors from Sport C to Sport J in a short shaft. Now it seems like if the motor is over 40 or 50 hp they are all long shaft.
It's defiantly going to take lots of thought to set the rules for these types of motors.And working with (or persuading) the manufacturers to get involved.
I think Honda has had some interest. I'm sure they (and all companies) will want to know what we can do for them and what will be the return on their investment.
Mark

Hey Mark,

I still dont get it, oh and by the way I started racing in OPC back in the early 80's so I know the whole history, I raced Sport J etc.. I burned up my share of 150XS motors.

Why do we need to persuade them to do anything, the motors are stock off the shelf and already in stock, there is no investment needed from them, the only thing they might see is a spike in sales. I am speaking in terms of just using the long shaft as seen in the photos.

[MN1]

Your right!!
If we did use all long shaft motors it could work. But do we really want to be racing long shaft motors in circle competition. Not really. Will existing racers want to race a long shaft motor. I don't know. But if the manufacturers offer some type of incentives and help promote (their motor) then there would be much more interest. Take for example SST 45, OMC helped this class get started with lots of promotion and I'm sure lots of money too.
Mark

[nbass]

Hey Neil,

Take a look at this post I made a few weeks back and please comment. I still dont get it, I am very confused on this issue. Who is it that will not allow these motors to be run here in the states as race motors APBA ? EPA ? can anyone help me understand this ? all the motors appear to be stock long shaft motors from the corner dealer.

http://www.hydroracer.net/forums/sho...ght=understand

Thanks

Dan, I did read this post several days or weeks ago, and have been amazed that OPC does not pick up on the simple concept of returning to their roots. I get the impression that there is talk about making the sport easier for new racers, but in reality no one wants to do anything about it. In my mind there is lots of room for new OPC classes that run off-the-shelf equipment and let the older specialty classes die with attrition. In EPA approved Tohatsus there is a 15-inch 50HP and the 70, 90, & 115 come in 20-inch towers off-the-shelf readily available products. I imagine other manufacturers have similar EPA approved products.

I may be able to get EPA approval to import similar whole engines for competition purposes only, but that takes time to import and there would be lots of requirements to insure the engines never get used for anything other than competition. I do not see that as a good plan. The real problem is with antique APBA rules. We have to move with the changing time.

We are supporting Hot Rod in the Stock classes because if someone does not make some engines or changes there will not be anyone to move up to D-stock, the whole thing will collapse. Besides, their prices make our D-stock look pretty reasonable. We do not make a small lower unit and have no intention of doing so. If the Hot Rod program fails the SORC can always adopt our universal tower and lower unit as a standard for all their classes (fat chance).

We would consider building a universal mid-section with lower unit for OPC engines as we have for the D & FE mod classes, but there is too much risk, too many politicians, and the initial investment is too big for the long term paybacks. I think that is a universal manufacturers problem. Racing is just not a good investment.

I say, race what is off-shelf available or pay someone to develop something. We can do that development, but not at our risk and cost. The hay day of manufactured stock specialty racing equipment is over.
Respectfully,
Neil Bass

[DKLSST45]

Region 8 is doing just what you are talking about older v bottoms with 70 hp's on the back running stock lowers. read about it on page 30 of the propeller mag. this months edition. region 8 article

Similar to what we do with trihull down here., I am going to propose we also start up the same type class in order to gain new racer involvment. However there are those who think we have enough class's (3) and it would take away from the ranks of the existing class's instead of adding to them. I disagree ,, there has to be a starting point,, at a reasonable cost to attract new people into the sport,,,,, key word here is FUN above everything else and reasonable cost(lets face it the words cheap and racing don't go together)
That is how the Tri-Hull class started but has Morphed into a whole new animal,,,,fun factor still there but cost has risen to stay competative.

There are old boats laying around a newbie could get into cheap, not quite the expense of 45 or trihull,, or there are new boats that would fit this class that are reasonable along with a current production motor.

Your opinions are welcome

[DKLSST45]

Guy's,

take a look at www.customkamo.com ,,go under the boat section and look at the Viper race boat,,,, can be built with or without the race deck
13 ft critchfeild type design 220lbs. with the deck

what do you think about it??

Doug

[T Chance]

Guy's,

take a look at www.customkamo.com ,,go under the boat section and look at the Viper race boat,,,, can be built with or without the race deck
13 ft critchfeild type design 220lbs. with the deck

what do you think about it??

Doug

It is a very nice looking boat and appears to be perfect as an entry level for OPC. But personally while I have no problem with a Pro Runabout in the 90 mph range I think 70 mph in a Viper would scare me half to death. If I were to run OPC again it would only be in a Tunnel.

[HRTV]

Guy's,

take a look at www.customkamo.com ,,go under the boat section and look at the Viper race boat,,,, can be built with or without the race deck
13 ft critchfeild type design 220lbs. with the deck

what do you think about it??

Doug

The 13' Critchfield was an OPC class back in the day I forget the actual name of the class, its already been done. When I started racing in OPC back in 1980 all these classes were huge!

[Joe J]

Dan:

If I remember correctly, the class was called EP (production).

Like you, I started my racing career in OPC, since that is what I grew up in.

Joe

The 13' Critchfield was an OPC class back in the day I forget the actual name of the class, its already been done. When I started racing in OPC back in 1980 all these classes were huge!

[HRTV]

Dan:

If I remember correctly, the class was called EP (production).

Like you, I started my racing career in OPC, since that is what I grew up in.

Joe

Hey Joe,

Yep thats was it EP we had tons of those little 13' Critchfield at all our races, we also had Family JP and Mod VP Back in the day I ran Mod UJ, Sport J , Formula 100 and Champ My OPC racing days came to an end when I hit a sea wall in Sunbury, PA I went through the floor of the boat and the Johnson RS V6 ended up in my seat

[MN1]

Dan, I did read this post several days or weeks ago, and have been amazed that OPC does not pick up on the simple concept of returning to their roots. I get the impression that there is talk about making the sport easier for new racers, but in reality no one wants to do anything about it. In my mind there is lots of room for new OPC classes that run off-the-shelf equipment and let the older specialty classes die with attrition. In EPA approved Tohatsus there is a 15-inch 50HP and the 70, 90, & 115 come in 20-inch towers off-the-shelf readily available products. I imagine other manufacturers have similar EPA approved products.

I may be able to get EPA approval to import similar whole engines for competition purposes only, but that takes time to import and there would be lots of requirements to insure the engines never get used for anything other than competition. I do not see that as a good plan. The real problem is with antique APBA rules. We have to move with the changing time.

We are supporting Hot Rod in the Stock classes because if someone does not make some engines or changes there will not be anyone to move up to D-stock, the whole thing will collapse. Besides, their prices make our D-stock look pretty reasonable. We do not make a small lower unit and have no intention of doing so. If the Hot Rod program fails the SORC can always adopt our universal tower and lower unit as a standard for all their classes (fat chance).

We would consider building a universal mid-section with lower unit for OPC engines as we have for the D & FE mod classes, but there is too much risk, too many politicians, and the initial investment is too big for the long term paybacks. I think that is a universal manufacturers problem. Racing is just not a good investment.

I say, race what is off-shelf available or pay someone to develop something. We can do that development, but not at our risk and cost. The hay day of manufactured stock specialty racing equipment is over.
Respectfully,
Neil Bass

So you would be able to import the 40c motor that we use in Sport C class!! This could be a big help for the class. I don't remember when they stopped selling the motor here in the US.
Now we just need to get our tech rules more like the UIM, for all the classes. Our Sport C class weighs close to 100 lbs more than our counterpart in UIM racing. I wonder how the UIM Formula 2000 class differs from the SST 120 class?
Mark

[nbass]

Tohatsu M40c

So you would be able to import the 40c motor that we use in Sport C class!! This could be a big help for the class. I don't remember when they stopped selling the motor here in the US.
Now we just need to get our tech rules more like the UIM, for all the classes. Our Sport C class weighs close to 100 lbs more than our counterpart in UIM racing. I wonder how the UIM Formula 2000 class differs from the SST 120 class?
Mark

Is this the engine you want at the below site?
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/boat/products/m40csp.html

To import will take a competition waver from EPA which means we must come up with a way to insure that this engine will NEVER be used for anything but racing. We need cooperation from my Tohatsu contacts, some upfront money to buy at least three at a time, and patience to wait six to eight months to get them in. I am willing to work with someone who is willing to spend the money up front and be the class contact and organizer. I will work with EPA and whoever is the up-front sponsor to see if we could make it work. However, instead of bringing back historical racing products, why not race some of the products you can buy off-the-shelf?

So, who will step forward with the money and leadership?
Neil Bass