Looking for feedback on an idea

[propnuts]

I'm running for a SORC seat this year and I wanted to run this idea by you fart smuckers here. I would like to see the OMC restrictor for AXS opened SLIGHTLY (whatever testing says is good) and call the class A Stock Hydro, and eliminate AXSH. I know I'm not going to be a J commisioner, so lets put the question of eliminating another catagories class aside for now.

There are a couple things prompting this idea. You all know of the J project, and the question that keeps arising about what motor should the newbies buy. Fair or not, the PERCEPTION is that you need a Merc to win in J and AXS, and an OMC for ASH. I have heard from Merc owners that they will skip ASH and go straight to 20SS so the kids will be competitive. The way I see it that's a bad thing, the kids need to compete in a tougher class with experienced drivers like ASH before they will be ready for 20SS in my opinion. Keep in mind that the AXS class was only meant to be a temporary home for the Merc, NOT a new kids class.

I also hear a lot of bellyaching from fellow racers that they get tired of seeing the 15HP boats running seemingly all day. There's a fair bit of truth to that too.

Just throwing it out there, if it's a dumb idea I'll throw it on the heap with my other ones.

Tony

[BP125V]

hmmmmmm

Tony,

While I agree with you that skipping A and going straight to 20 is not good, I would like to submit my take on your proposal. Essentially what would we would be doing is slowing down the A class. It most likely would get some of the Merc drivers to run A, but slowing the class down may have the unintended result of driving away more current A drivers than you would gain. In my opinion the A class runs just fast enough to make it a fun ride. I've tested my equipment with an AXS restrictor and ran about 3 mph slower than my A and boy was it ever a dog of a ride. I vowed never to run it again. I really hate it when people threaten to quit if a rule is passed (personally I think it is blackmail of sorts) that they do not like and I am certainly not doing that now. I just want to point out a possible outcome of this change.

Keep the ideas coming.

Bill

[G Stillwill]

Just one thing to say here thank god the AX classes are in the J division and has nothing to do with the SORC. Just look how the class has grown since it was put in place more so than almost any other class and now someone that is running for a seat in another division wants to screw with it. I think maybe the SORC needs to look to fix something thats broke and in there division. As far as the Merc versus the OMC the really good OMC's will run with the really good Mercs if they do there home work. As far as seeing the 15's running around the same thing can be said about the rice burners as most cant tell the difference between the 80,102 and 302.

[Tomtall]

My input

Tony - It's good to bring this matter up for review here. I commend you for having the cahonies for doing it.

My vote is to leave these classes alone. I have watched good compitition in "J" and "AXS" classes all summer. The kids have smiles on their faces. Most of the parents are content from what I see. Because we have two competing motors in these classes you are NEVER going to please everyone. We need the stepping stone classes to "A" class. There are too many adults that run the "A" class that will never go with slowing down the class. I truley believe if you have a well built OMC for "J" and "AXS" you can compete against the merc's. You can't take a OMC with 5 years of racing time on it and expect to go out and hang with the freshly blueprinted merc's. You need a engine thats fresh with round holes and good ring seal to hang with them. It can be done. We have done it. I do believe in the long run, say 10 years from now, the mercury will be the "J" class motor,the Sidewinder will be the new "A" motor and the OMC 15 will be retired just as the KG4 was. Sorry to see it happen but thats the truth about progress for our sport.

Remember - Tony asked, I spoke and it's only my input on the matter. Majority rules and we will go with the flow if things change. We like the sport to much.

[Jack Stotts]

I recommend that if you are running for a SORC position that you openly identify yourself unless your name is actually propnuts.

[Mark.Wheeler]

Jack has a very good point.

Mark Wheeler

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Add , !!!

Very Good , i mite add where in the Heck are we?
Just an idea, good to know how far away your friend , or enama might be.?
RichardKCMo

Jack has a very good point.

Mark Wheeler

[Cameraboy]

Tony,

While I agree with you that skipping A and going straight to 20 is not good, I would like to submit my take on your proposal. Essentially what would we would be doing is slowing down the A class. It most likely would get some of the Merc drivers to run A, but slowing the class down may have the unintended result of driving away more current A drivers than you would gain. In my opinion the A class runs just fast enough to make it a fun ride. I've tested my equipment with an AXS restrictor and ran about 3 mph slower than my A and boy was it ever a dog of a ride. I vowed never to run it again. I really hate it when people threaten to quit if a rule is passed (personally I think it is blackmail of sorts) that they do not like and I am certainly not doing that now. I just want to point out a possible outcome of this change.

Keep the ideas coming.

Bill

Bill, interesting points, and I agree with your observation on people reacting to rule changes. I have some questions - what do you think a good spread is between classes? It seems that we have ASH running 55-57mph, I've been told BSH is 59-61, 20ss is 63-66, CSH is 67-70. Do we need that many classes in that band of speed (and aren't just going to continue to bunch together over time?)?

If ASH was slowed down to 54-55, wouldn't people have the option of moving to B/15ss if they want a faster ride in roughly the same size boat?

ps - Jack and Mark, "propnuts" or "Tony" is Tony Perman. And I don't think it would be his first time on the SORC.

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

So Be so Lucky!!!

I'll be140 day after when ever it was???
I'm sure glad we're thinking with an open mind.
Good Nite.

[G Stillwill]

Real world boat size versus speed and there is a world of difference between ASH and BSH when you grab a handfull of throtle, these speeds are what it takes to run up front anywhere there is a big race and the Nats.
AXSH, 8ft-6in boat,53-55
ASH, 8ft-6in boat,57-59
BSH, 9ft-9in boat,62-63
20SSH, 10ft 1in boat,67-68
CSH 10FT 3IN boat 69-71
From what was posted before about the direction for the future by the people that are in place now and the class structure for the future which is moving forward. Now when that group leaves the next group wants to make changes to that plan then the next group wants to make changes to that plan and in reality we just keep going backwards as in past history. What company in there right mind would want to make motors for us to buy and use if in the next breath they dont have a viable product to sell because the plan changed. I wouldnt worry to much about the OMC 15 as the writting is on the wall just as it was with the KG-4 both did its part for the sport and did it well and will still have a place in the sport but will not be the motor of choice. Now the races are calling have to get going

[raceright]

Same Same

Gonna post here just once(this will make some happy) New Commis--thinks he has new Ideas and is wanting to do same old thing--Take a stock motor change it and call it stock---best you could call it is a mod.I submit again untill stock uses modern engines that are available right at your local Outboard dealer stocks numbers will never grow like they could and should...stop pandering to the Mfg.s as they have no loyalty and make them
compete for you'r business(if ya don't understand how to do this take some marketing courses its called free enterprize system works real well in motor cycle industry)
Pat Wright
N711 Top Hydro because in the end there can only be one

[jeff55v]

--Take a stock motor change it and call it stock---best you could call it is a mod.

Lets just change the catagory name. Instead of Stock Outboard, lets call it Spec. Outboard.

(No, I don't agree with the name change. I'm just tired of hearing this same arguement about Stock Outboard over and over)

I don't see any way we will ever be able to go back to the days when a person will be able to go to his local boat motor dealership to buy a motor. And then race the same unchanged motor the following Saturday. We (Stock Outboard) is as close to that concept as possible right now.

Heard this before. It ain't gonna happen.
Back to the restrictor topic now please.
IMHO

PS. I have a MODERN S.O. engine with parts available at my local dealership.

[ricochet112]

We run all the OMC classes, Brian runs J and AXS, I run AXS (some) and A.

AXS came about because of the failure of the Merc for an A motor, NOT because we needed another class.

The reason we need a stepping stone from J to A is because A is TOO fast! How long has APBA gone without a J to A transition class? 50 some years!?!

We need fewer classes, 1)to have any chance to promote our sport, and 2)not burn out race officials with 8-9 hour race days.

Hopefully the Sidewinder will help with this, and when this happens the A speeds will fall (projected) and the AXS class should then be eliminated.

Mike Bartlett

[Teri Ziemer]

Tony:

Lauren has been running AXH for 3 years now. Personally I would fight to keep it in place, as I feel it is a great step for drivers who are ready to move out of J, and are not yet old enough to run A.

Joe

[bill boyes]

Tony, Remember just a few years ago the SORC placed on the Ballot to put a restrictor in the OMC "A" to slow it down so that the Merc could compete. It lost by a large margin. So the SORC gave the ASX class to the "J" Committee. We tweak it some and some people found out how to make the Merc perform. From what I saw at Moses Lake the Mercs ran well In J and ASX. But not as to make anchors out of the OMC. How many OMC "A" motors are available to purchase? If I wanted to start my child in "J" today I would need to look long and hard for an OMC then pay about $2500 for it. Heck I would buy a Merc new. Then would have someone like Mr Stillwell work his magic on it.
Has anyone taken a Stillwill prepared Merc without the restrictor and compared it with the OMC without the restrictor? Wonder how it would perform.