The super "C" class

[David_L6]

Now contrary to what Sam says, and I'm a little bit older than Sam, but I worked on these early Saab cars that came in this country, they were a 2 cycle, 3 cyclinder vehicle with a 4-speed on the column.

Mike DeLisa
8-J

What size were those engines though? 500cc seems awful small for a car.

[John Schubert]

Super C

A few more Super C drivers in the North East area.
Bob DeCarlo
Willy Kierjes
Pete Voss
Bob Hooghkirk
Pat Wright

Billy Simmons
Gary Hilsen

[startyourengine]

Hey Dave:

We didn't go by CC's in the 60's, it was CI's and I don't remember what the CI's were but the whole car weighed in at less than 2,000 lbs. Probably closer to about 16-1700 lbs and front wheel drive, they were like a Mini Cooper.

Mike

[bill van steenwyk]

3 cyl two stroke in the SAAB

If you Google SAAB you will find some info on the several different displacement sizes of engines in the car. The info I saw seems to indicate they started with 750CC and then went as large as 841CC. HP ranged from approx 35 up to 70 depending on number of carbs, porting, state of tune, etc.

Harry ZAK had one of these in the early 60's I believe, before I met and knew him. He worked his magic on the motor and used to get a lot of fun out of drag racing other cars in the Moline, Il. area with much larger 4 cycle engines. He usually won based on the tales he recounted to me, but I seem to remember that there was a problem with the engine getting the right amount of lube based on the oil to gas mix being used. It wasn't the mix so much as the motor did not seem to like high revs and Harry made a lot of mods to the thing to get it to stay together under high rev conditions. Except for that problem, which probably would not have been one if not run hard and abused, he said it was a very good little car.

The car ended up being manufactured with a V-4 made by Ford/Europe in it, that was also used in some other Ford vehicles at the time. Later versions sold here in the US had 4 cyl/4 cycle turbocharged engines of about 2.3 liter displacement I think. I rented one when I went out to the Nationals in Bakersfield in 82, and it was a really good performing little car. Looked like a 46 Ford Coupe somewhat but would really surprise you with its performance.

[sam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_two-stroke


The Saab has a larger base where the bell housing attaches and the intake and exhaust are reversed

Its not the same motor

[16JBilly]

mike whos engine do you have

[trident]

Saab 2 stroke

Had a friend who had a 'Monte Carlo' Saab 2 stroke, the little FWD aero shaped two door. It had two curious features, one was a sort of roller window shade thingie that pulled up in front of the radiator as an adjustable 'winter front' cover. The other was a free-wheel feature, as engine braking (closed throttle) with a two stroke would starve it for oil!

Oops! Stick city.

The later V-4 four strokes were less weird and more power. Those were also used in the later Sonnets. The original version was still a two stroke triple, if memory serves. My old crew guy had an orange/yellow Sonnet. Looked like a tiny bad kit car to me. I simply could not fit in it!

[johnsonm50]

Had a friend who had a 'Monte Carlo' Saab 2 stroke, the little FWD aero shaped two door. It had two curious features, one was a sort of roller window shade thingie that pulled up in front of the radiator as an adjustable 'winter front' cover. The other was a free-wheel feature, as engine braking (closed throttle) with a two stroke would starve it for oil!

Oops! Stick city.

The later V-4 four strokes were less weird and more power. Those were also used in the later Sonnets. The original version was still a two stroke triple, if memory serves. My old crew guy had an orange/yellow Sonnet. Looked like a tiny bad kit car to me. I simply could not fit in it!

They were a small one. The ones I remember were new & sat at the dealer for awhile unsold [pea soup green & another was bright orange] They were the 4 stroke V4s in about '70-'71. Being a Plymouth dealer there at about the same time were a red, a white & a blue trio of Superbirds out front, new aaannd affordable ... 2 Hemi's & a 440 six pack. Hmmm what would you notice..

[xcsp700]

I remember this motor didnt last long but definitly a cool motor one of my favorites.

[Wagneracing06]

Last night's post never made it.

I think I was one of the only guys in the midwest that ran super C. I know Bob Vanover ran the alkie version. And there were the Kendalls who also ran them on Byers craft hydros in alkie. When I heard and saw them run, I had to have one. Unfortunately for me, no one else bought one in region 6. I think the only time super C hydro was on a sanction in region 6 was the Dayton Nationals, and the Dayton record runs in 77. I only raced CSSH at Dayton and Saranac Lake. And I raced CSSR at 75 Dayton Nats.
I had the battery ignition which was obsolete when I bought the motor. I saw some guys converted a merc 6 cyl. thunderbolt ignition to run on every other plug wire post in the cap.
I remember going through a lot of fouled plugs until I got the right sized fixed jets. I had 10 minutes testing on the motor at 74 Nats. in Dayton and the bearings in the gear case took a S#&T. It turned out the prop gear o.d. was a few thousandths bigger than the gear case i.d. I guess aluminum shavings aren't a good lubricant. My uncle ground down the gear dimension and after meticulous shimming the unit never gave me any trouble.
I bought my boat used from Dicky. I always thought it was a Butt's, but I have had people tell me it looks like a Yale. I bought in in 74 and picked it up in Depue. I went to Dayton 2 weeks later and sat on the shore and watched the eliminations.
What a ride. Best I ever had. I think the formula E's have to be the about the same feeling. It was tough to get anyone to consider the investment because you could run C and D stock for about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost. (SOUND FAMILIAR) Don't give up on the Sidewinder, Tohatsu and Dave Scott 44XS Mercs.
Simmons and Snow were supersonic. I always heard Simmon's was faster but a blown engine prevented Billy and Brad from squaring off. A few other's that raced super C from my memory are:

Walt Humphries Sr.
Ray Mang
Reed Riddle
Eldridge?
Ron Hill ran super C runabout at 75 Nats.

I ended up stepping up and racing 500, 750 and 1100 pro outboard at TRORA races with mine. Back then you got prize money!!!! The dependability of the motor almost always put me in the money. I wonder how these engines would run on today's boats and the addition of a third blade on the props.


Rick Wagner Sr.

[B1PRORACER]

Cssh

At our race last weekend in Taunton (Massachusetts), we had a large number of former Super C hydro drivers: Bill Giles, Brad Snow, John Yale, Wally Humphrey, Roger Hartwell.... That is quite a few drivers from so long ago! This area (at that time) also had: Peter Nichols, Vinnie DuBuc, Walter Hastlett.... and I'm probably forgetting someone! They were always exciting to watch because of their speed and exotic looks.

[ZUL8TR]

Super C

Here in Region 5 in the mid 70's Marshall Eldridge ran Super C Cresent.

[Robert M Keogler]

Are there any pictures of these Guys running? I remember seeing them run in Hinton WV in 76 or 77. Very impressive.

[16JBilly]

I think I was one of the only guys in the midwest that ran super C. I know Bob Vanover ran the alkie version. And there were the Kendalls who also ran them on Byers craft hydros in alkie. When I heard and saw them run, I had to have one. Unfortunately for me, no one else bought one in region 6. I think the only time super C hydro was on a sanction in region 6 was the Dayton Nationals, and the Dayton record runs in 77. I only raced CSSH at Dayton and Saranac Lake. And I raced CSSR at 75 Dayton Nats.
I had the battery ignition which was obsolete when I bought the motor. I saw some guys converted a merc 6 cyl. thunderbolt ignition to run on every other plug wire post in the cap.
I remember going through a lot of fouled plugs until I got the right sized fixed jets. I had 10 minutes testing on the motor at 74 Nats. in Dayton and the bearings in the gear case took a S#&T. It turned out the prop gear o.d. was a few thousandths bigger than the gear case i.d. I guess aluminum shavings aren't a good lubricant. My uncle ground down the gear dimension and after meticulous shimming the unit never gave me any trouble.
I bought my boat used from Dicky. I always thought it was a Butt's, but I have had people tell me it looks like a Yale. I bought in in 74 and picked it up in Depue. I went to Dayton 2 weeks later and sat on the shore and watched the eliminations.
What a ride. Best I ever had. I think the formula E's have to be the about the same feeling. It was tough to get anyone to consider the investment because you could run C and D stock for about 1/3 to 1/2 the cost. (SOUND FAMILIAR) Don't give up on the Sidewinder, Tohatsu and Dave Scott 44XS Mercs.
Simmons and Snow were supersonic. I always heard Simmon's was faster but a blown engine prevented Billy and Brad from squaring off. A few other's that raced super C from my memory are:

Walt Humphries Sr.
Ray Mang
Reed Riddle
Eldridge?
Ron Hill ran super C runabout at 75 Nats.

I ended up stepping up and racing 500, 750 and 1100 pro outboard at TRORA races with mine. Back then you got prize money!!!! The dependability of the motor almost always put me in the money. I wonder how these engines would run on today's boats and the addition of a third blade on the props.


Rick Wagner Sr.

the boat you bought from dickie was a butts thats the one i ran for him the week before hinton nationals at 94 mpr i threw a rod cut the engine in half i paid 1100.00 for the engine went to order a short block it was 2400.00 thats what happened to the class

[14-H]

***I have a 3 series pic of Dad blowing over the Super C in Dayton with what looked like a full field around him. '74 I think.

Howie: Let's see them! Eddie.