BSR Sidewinder

[Hagerl 6M]

yep

Sorry for not keeping the thread on topic..............



I did. Living in Lake Mills and teaching grade 4 at Johnson Creek. We are trying to get back up north though. I just applied to a school in Maple which is about 15 miles from Superior. We can't take the Southern WI non-winters and flat terrain.

Thanks for asking

[Blackhawkguy]

rules are rules

I do not see where rules would have to be changed, the side fin is not an advantage to me on a small boat, it is a crutch for people who do not know how to drive a roll up, (on a "A" I can see where they may be an advantage because of power issues) most people over drive a roll up in the corner, it sounds like the current runabout rules are fine, maybe people want to revisit the basic runabout rules and redefine them next anual meeting. The depth and width dimensions were changed to try and stimulate the runabout classes and make the boats look cooler, I do not think it helped but only allowed people to build boats that where good for flat water racing. Runabouts have always been a resrticted class of boat, for a reason.

Kerry

[greybeard]

Existing rules

My opinion (with it and $3.95 you can get yourself a Mocha Latte)

BSR in the Rule Book is a bottom fin only and I'd say 15ssr is a NEW class and rules are tbd....

John

[speedracer024]

15ssr

Since 15SSR and 15SSH were BSR and BSH respectively do the rules for the class go with the name? I would assume the SORC took this into consideration. Can someone please clarify this issue?

John, I would disagree with you, 15SSR and 15SSH is not a new class but rather an old class being renamed. BSR and BSH will be the new classes, so those rules are TBA.

[greybeard]

BSR? 15SSR? Old? New?

No real argument on which is old or new, 15ss came in around '74 and B is an original class. They are both old class designations. Since 15SS is not in the rulebook now I chose to call it new... Anyway one is new and the other is a rollup...

I don't think, as other posts (Holt) have noted that you can't run a 15 Hot Rod on a ASR disigned for a OMC 15A. But I believe you can run a 15 and 20 HR on the same boat design even though it may not be ideal in one class or the other. Feel that the best path for growth in both 15SSR and BSR classes is for the boat specs in these two to be compatable and be able to run two classes on one boat... and I would personally prefer that boat to be a roll up.

Question about runabout design differences between 15SSR and BSR; Has any one tried a 20ci Hot Rod on a current sized BSR? How significant is the anticipate speed difference going to be between 15ssr and B? wasn't much back in the day...

John

[csh12M]

Ed Hearn has....

Ed Hearn did it a couple of times on his racecraft. He said it was more than a handful.

Ed chime in with your 2 cents on this one.

[speedracer024]

answers

i recall the BSR drivers voted to ban the side fins from the class. Now the way I see it, just because the classes name changed doesn't mean it should be looking for new rules. I wish my fellow Gordon fan would speak up and tell the 15SSR drivers if they need to get a ballot issue going to ban sides fins from their class again or not.

I've talked to a few of the older guys, no names needed, but having a side fin on the old 20cc hot rods was a handful because the power the motor had, hopefully the new sidewinder will be the same.

S.D.

[T Chance]

What is the status of the Sidewinder in AOF and NBRA?

[Haüenstein]

I've talked to a few of the older guys, no names needed, but having a side fin on the old 20cc hot rods was a handful because the power the motor had, hopefully the new sidewinder will be the same.

This is interesting, but I don't understand why that would be. Surely PRO runabouts have a lot of power.

Mike Hauenstein

[dholt]

How about this?

Joe Silvestri gave me an idea.

Put bottom width restrictions on the new 20ci Sidewinder runabout.

Say...34-35 inches.

Allow either a side fin or bottom fin.

The wider bottom is what makes the side fin boats faster. So, if both side and bottom fin had the same bottom width...they should run fairly equal.

Then it's all about corner speed. Sometimes rolling up is faster around a corner than side fine...sometimes the opposite is true.

[bill boyes]

The min width at the transom for a BSR is 44 inches. With a 35 inch bottom does not leave much for the non-trips that need to be there for a roll up. A 10 foot six inch long boat and a 30" bottom is what I'am thinking. That would leave room for a nice non-trip(chine) for a roll up. Also I would to see a 10" to 12 " depth at amidship. Measured at sheer line to bottom of keel. Measued on the outside of boat.

[Hagerl 6M]

Nice idea Dana and Joe but........

Dana,
I like the theory of Joe's idea about restricting the bottom to a narrow-ish width but allowing side fins. It would keep the speeds the same except for in the corners. That sounds great but you know me-----I feel that the side fin is a different type all together way of getting through the turns and that is why I loved that the sidefin was banned from the class. I like to see in the turns and not worry about being stuck outside of a sidefin boat. (If I started better I wouldn't have to worry about that) The sidefin ban was to preserve a type of racing, at least that is the way I see it.
Like I said, the idea is good if you are concentrating on speed but not if you are looking at a type or style of racing.

Do you agree?

[hunter grimes]

what does roll-up only mean

...for the fun of compounding the debate which seems to be brewing as to the designation of roll-up only classes,I would suggest the young Mr Runne have a chat with his grandpa about the nature of boats and drivers of his era. My father ran "CSR" in the late 50s and into the mid 60s with considerable success....first with a Raveau and later with DeSilvas.The Raveau would get around the corners almost anyway.If the approach to the pins could be set up favorably and your nerve was up to the task,the boat would skid around the turns flat...no side fin required. There are still DeSilva hulls being used that are capable of flat turning with no side fin . My point is how do you regulate the turning technique ? What is next...do you outlaw jambing your butt against the clamps because it is risky ? H.Grimes III

[jswain3]

Everyone that races bsr flat turns they're BSR at some point in each corner obviously. Side fins are NOT allowed now in the current BSR class. So why should they be when the new sidewinder engines come out???? I believe it takes skill to flat turn a BSR while in the corner or coming out of one. If you misjudge that you could find yourself swimming in the lake. Yet if you don't misjudge it, you find yourself keeping your RPM's up and having more speed coming out of the turn. I think that is one reason BSR is so special, because it requires you to drive the boat more than just "jamming your butt against the clamps."

[jsilvestri]

With all of the talk about moving the sport into the future, why would we eliminate the side fin runabouts from competing in certain runabout classes. Don't get me wrong, I've rolled-up many runabouts and still prefere them, but maybe some drivers do not. Preserving a class to roll-up runabouts only seems to be holding us back, at least from moving into the future. And, do not tell me that driving a good side fin runabout is easy, at least I haven't experienced it. My CSR side fin boat, is a handful. I still have to work the boat down the straights and most of the time through the turns, its just takes a different technique.

My reasoning for mentioning a bottom width was to make both styles of runabouts more equal. Anyone who knows both side fin and roll-up boats knows that the biggest advantage to a side fin boat is the bottom width. The wider the bottom the bigger the prop you can swing therefore the faster you will go. By limiting the bottom width on the side fin boats, you would be leveling the playing field while still allowing those who want to drive the side fin boats a place to race.

Remember that a lot of us learned how to drive a roll-up runabout in the J catagory when we still ran 9' runabouts with the 60J. The boats were small enough and the motors were light enough for us to learn how to roll them up. That no longer exists and the kids running J runabout now drive much bigger boats with much heavier motors which has caused almost all of the kids to convert to the side fin runabouts. Now, you expect them to jump into a runabout and roll them up after moving on from the J ranks. Doesn't make much sense.

By the way, the picture in my avatar is my 15SSR with a 20H merc on the back which I will be racing again this year at Zanesville, OH at the Mod Nationals in AMR.