BSR Sidewinder

[Tim Weber]

At Ocoee I did a little asking around about the Sidewinder 20 cube B.
It seems the new B hydro is a slam dunk as it is slated to run with the Y-80 and eventually replace it.

The question is about the runabout. Are we going to run it on the current 10 ft. B boat? Is it going to be a roll up only ride?

I would like to see a 11 ft boat, with no side fin. A little bigger boat would distinguish the 20 cube from the 15 cube and I think it would be a real sweet ride.

How much should it weigh? Maybe 375, I am not sure. I have heard that the motor is supposed to weigh abouit 50 pounds annd it would be nice to be able to race it and weigh 200 pounds. Figure 200 driver weight, 110 boat weight and 50 pounds motor, 15 pounds safety gear and you get 375.

What do you guys and gals think?

Tim

[kws]

As a 140 pounder I would like to see the class weight lower. I would like to run B someday and I dont think having to add 60 pounds to a boat to make weight is a wise move. do you feel 140 people should only have 1 class?

[Bill Huson]

15ss/B weight?

Why not set the weights as they were back in the good ol' daze for 15ss and B? I seem to recall 350 lbs for 15ssH. Maybe 5 was added during the push to get everyone in anti-cut suits. I was pushing 180 lbs neked and had to add weight to my 15ssH even after I got properly dressed for racing. I forgot what the BSH weight was - maybe 20 lbs less than 20ssH? Those were good weights and lemme tell ya, I loved being able to toss a Hot Rod on the transom without the sweat and muscle strain of grunting a ship anchor weight Yamato outta the trailer.

Hot Rodz rule!

[stu_racing]

Tim,
I'm not a runabout guy so I won't comment on BSR, but I think 375lbs or maybe 10lbs more is a good weight for the new BSH. This way the 200lbs guy can run BSH and CSH and the guys that weigh 140-170lbs will have ASH and 15ssh (15ssh weight should be lowered a touch in my opinion from the current BSH weight). 2 possible hydro classes per driver weight category is plenty, especially if we are trying encourage people to run less classes to shorten the race day.

[jswain3]

The new "BSR" will surely be a roll up only runabout class...at least I hope so!

[greybeard]

Bsr

How fast do you want the 20 cube BSR class to go?

I would support a 10'6" or 11 ft BSR and an all up weight aroung 385-390 which I believe is close to the last 20cube weight for this class. Would get you away from needing a trick carbon fiber boat.

Keep the curent 15 cube Bs with size and weight that they are at now and call it 15SS like the proposal. The 155SS offered a 140 driver close to BSR speeds and a better ride than an A.

I would also like to see 15SSR and BSR as Roll Ups... Personal preference on this...

John

[ryan_4z]

I see the BSR class(20 Sidewinder) running about 62 mph on a runabout. I would love for it to be roll-up only. I would say it goes on a 10" boat though. No need for a bigger boat. A B boat and an A boat have always been the same length, the difference is the lifts and breaks. Weight I see at about 375 lbs., which seems to be about what everyone here is thinking. Like Bill said, look at the old weights and go with that. Kevin, don't worry, we are talking new B, 15ss is the class you are talking about.

[craig murden]

Roll-Up, B Run.

Presume the "...roll-up only..." language means bottom fin only. We can't possibly be thinking of MANDATING how a boat is driven.

Otherwise, Tim's thoughts of 375 lbs sounds right. But, don't see why a 10' hull won't work.

And, how about the 25XS since both the Merc and the 20 HR are in the same class now (among nameless others).

[ryan_4z]

My reasoning for wanting to see this as a roll-up only class is based in the history of runabout. Runabouts have always been a more regulated, utility based boat. Whereas hydros were more open to different designs and innovations. I see these as being defining characteristic differences between the two. Over the years we have allowed runabouts to lose their identity. I would love to see the "A" class transition to roll-up only.

[kws]

I see the BSR class(20 Sidewinder) running about 62 mph on a runabout. I would love for it to be roll-up only. I would say it goes on a 10" boat though. No need for a bigger boat. A B boat and an A boat have always been the same length, the difference is the lifts and breaks. Weight I see at about 375 lbs., which seems to be about what everyone here is thinking. Like Bill said, look at the old weights and go with that. Kevin, don't worry, we are talking new B, 15ss is the class you are talking about.

No Ryan you assume wrongly here. I said B, i ment B, had i ment 15, I would of said 15

[Gunjumper]

Whoa Ryan...

Keep that "roll-up only" stuff to the 15SSR and new BSR, we're just fine in ASR! How are we going to get through a day of racing at a decent hour if we keep adding classes? On top of that, I think we're making our form of racing even more unattractive to new people with all of this. It would make my head spin trying to explain class structure to a new guy/girl. "You can buy this boat with this motor for this class but it might be replaced in a few years, or you need that motor with this boat but only two of you will show up at the next race so you'll be put in with so and so Runabout. I keep hearing "how can we attract more racers?" I think we're driving newby's away... Just my opinion, not trying to get into a 17 page argument with DG. Greg Lyons

[ryan_4z]

Greg, you are absolutely right, our sport is a jumbled mess right now. And it is going to be for a couple more years probably. That's why a plan for the future is being implemented. We have to clean up the mess that has been ac***ulating over the last 20 years or more. Hopefully, if the plan gets followed, in a few years we will have a very simple class structure. No new classes are being added. I think the fact that we have too many classes is the only thing everybody can agree upon. The new BSR class is going to be formed out of the current 25ssR class. Oh, don't worry about ASR, that's just me talking. I don't see the ASR drivers voting for bottom-fins only any time soon. I just think it's cool.

[ryan_4z]

Imagine if this were our class structure.

ASR/ASH-OMC "A"
15ssr/15ssH-Sidewinder 15(also Hot Rod 15
BSR/BSH-Sidewinder 20
CSR/CSH-Yamato 102/302
DSR/DSH-Bass/Tohatsu

That would be pretty simple, wouldn't it? No questions about what motor to buy, where do I get it, will I be competetive. There won't be questions about how long can this stuff be raced, because when we have a phase in plan, we will know that this motor will be run for at least 3 years after it is eliminated. So buying a new motor is never a bad investment. Now, with this simple class structure there is a place for everyone to race. There is a runabout and a hydro class for every motor, and they are the same class. Now, this is where the class standard become important. The class standards tell us which classes we don't need. Which ones aren't popular enough to continue. Just like a business, if the product isn't selling, pull it off the shelves. That is how we reduce our race day. You eliminate local classes and funnel all the drivers into national classes. There are enough classes to have something for everybody.

[bh/]

I agree with Ryan...???

[QUOTE=ryan_4z;76663]Imagine if this were our class structure.

ASR/ASH-OMC "A"
15ssr/15ssH-Sidewinder 15(also Hot Rod 15
BSR/BSH-Sidewinder 20
CSR/CSH-Yamato 102/302
DSR/DSH-Bass/Tohatsu

That would be pretty simple, wouldn't it?

That is close to what we should be aiming for;
-provides a source for new motors [and parts] in every class;[except A !!] - cuts down the classes to a manageble number; -but does not make happy campers of those with engines we have obsoleted. So how about this, which[IMHO] satisfys all the above, and is overseen by a 'parity' commision which adjusts weight 'only'
to ensure that the old [unavailable] motors do not dominate.

J/AX MERC [restricted OMC]
A S'W 'A' , [OMC]
B S'W 'B', [HR15, Y80]
C Y302, [102, 25XS]
D Bass/T [44XS, M500H, M55H]

One thing we must do is create a viable market for the S'W and Bass/T motors, so that the cost can remain reasonable. I would guess if 300 S'Ws
do not sell in the 1st three years of production, it will be very difficult to keep the cost under $4000, and may not even remain in business. If that happens, stock racing, in its present form, is done for.

[14-H]

Asr/ash = Omc

Why would we leave the A classes with only an engine that is out of production? I thought the whole point of the Sidewinder was to replace all of the "two cylinder" classes? If there is not going to be a Sidewinder for the A Classes, then we should restrict the OMC so that the Mercury is the engine of choice (or at least competitive, like in the AX classes).