Stock Outboard Racing

[nbass]

Inspectors?

The concept of inspection is great, but unfortunately there are lots of things done to engines that are not inspected or inspectors do not know what to look for. Racers are very creative in their thrust to be the fastest. Therefore, there is really no such thing as a stock engine once it has been out there for a couple of years. The question still is how much are the racers willing to pay for a manufacturer to hand built and seal engines? Are the racers willing to throw away otherwise operable parts when at re-build time?

[STEVE FRENCH]

nbass,
I thought I was the only one who could not sleep at night........2:12 am here..........

19P

[nbass]

Up Late

I had minor surgery for a benign tumor near the brain stem on Friday so they put me on steroids to control any swelling. The dock said I would be a little hyper at night. So far that has kept me to about 3 hours of sleep a day. Not a fun way to spend nights. What is your excuse?
Neil Bass

[STEVE FRENCH]

Just "junk" going on in my head in mornings these days......

Haunts of being in det.........

30 years Sept 10 1976 Dad (Doc) passed so He's been show'n up in the o'l noggin lately (especially with hunt'n season come'n up..........)...I'll be the age he was in Nov..........

Motor work I --want-- to do but hate to empty the 4 motors in box to get at 4-cyl Merc in back.........want to brace tower after seeing cracks in Alan's D-MOD steel tower.........

Beth is into herbal stuff....has a sleep aid that works well. Natures's Sunshine/"Herbal Sleep"+"Nutra Calm"----just took some.............back to bed......

Take care.........

19P I got some stuff needs attend'n soon. Gotta git in VA for phys ASAP

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

Inpection at our races is pathetic!!!!!!!!!

I am sure to make people mad with that statement, but I do not intend to.
We are so low buck that we have most inspectors working their butts off for nothing, plus trying to race themselves or help a family member. They cannot perform the work needed to complete a decent inspection.
Granted, every now and then and inspector will have an extra surge of energy and look for something odd.
Racers are so used to the same old weight, height and fuel inspection. Why? because that is the easiest and quickest way to have inspection.

After all these years of the 25xs engine, my motor actually got cc'd for the first time! I almost fell over when they asked!
My restrictor plate has been looked at once and never measured. 95% of the races I have been in I could have left it out cause I never have to pull the cowling.

Our inspectors really need help, yes I know I should be one of them. I am far from a motor guy though and never pretend to be. Maybe I will offer to help this weekend between our 10 classes if I can. Our inspectors will probably fall over in shock!

Usually when you pull into inspection, you are lucky enough to even find an inspector standing there. We couldnt find one at our last race we visited on Saturday, by Sunday the entire inspection area disappeared!

Every now and then, our OMC 'J' motor cowling will get pulled off just to see if the correct number is stamped on the top of the restrictor. That makes me chuckle!!!! I could have made the hole one inch!! But who would know???

We have enough of a hard time finding someone to inspect the outside easy stuff on a motor...........can you imagine what is going on inside some of them????

Boy, our sport needs help....any ideas on how to make inspection better??

[nbass]

Try Pro Racing

The inspection issues and the need to modify pushed Sid and I into the Pro division many years ago. Basically one inspection, how many cc's. Even at that, one time Sid had to teach an inspector how to figure out one cylinder can be over, but the limit is on the engine. The engine being inspected had one cylinder bored way over, but the total cc's of the engine was well below the limit.

Pro is expensive, and keeping it running requires a machine shop and lots of time. Our engines were typically partially disassembled after each race and the expected life was short.

Stock racing is very different. Initial costs are small for the quality of equipment purchased, maintenance costs are very much less, and the time investment is much less. But, what is stock? All production engines require some modifications to allow them to be run successfully at higher RPM as required for a racing application. The manufacturer makes those choices during production and over time with observation. That is stock.

I suggest better inspector training. More SORC $ investment in training and inspection aids. Make the rules tough on those that violate the stock motor specifications. Do not allow favoritism. Just a few thoughts.

[mercguy]

I am sure to make people mad with that statement, but I do not intend to.
We are so low buck that we have most inspectors working their butts off for nothing, plus trying to race themselves or help a family member. They cannot perform the work needed to complete a decent inspection.
Granted, every now and then and inspector will have an extra surge of energy and look for something odd.
Racers are so used to the same old weight, height and fuel inspection. Why? because that is the easiest and quickest way to have inspection.

After all these years of the 25xs engine, my motor actually got cc'd for the first time! I almost fell over when they asked!
My restrictor plate has been looked at once and never measured. 95% of the races I have been in I could have left it out cause I never have to pull the cowling.

Our inspectors really need help, yes I know I should be one of them. I am far from a motor guy though and never pretend to be. Maybe I will offer to help this weekend between our 10 classes if I can. Our inspectors will probably fall over in shock!

Usually when you pull into inspection, you are lucky enough to even find an inspector standing there. We couldnt find one at our last race we visited on Saturday, by Sunday the entire inspection area disappeared!

Every now and then, our OMC 'J' motor cowling will get pulled off just to see if the correct number is stamped on the top of the restrictor. That makes me chuckle!!!! I could have made the hole one inch!! But who would know???

We have enough of a hard time finding someone to inspect the outside easy stuff on a motor...........can you imagine what is going on inside some of them????

Boy, our sport needs help....any ideas on how to make inspection better??

Jeff, I completely agree with you here. It is the same way at most of the races I have attended the last few years. What pisses me off, is that I make sure all my stuff is legal for every race and know others that do not and they get away with it. I have "thought considerably" about taking the inspector test myself during the off season, so I can try being of help at the races I attend (even with me running 3/4 classes per weekend). What is required to be an "official inspector"?

[Dave M]

Inspection

Darren,

All you have to do is take a written test to become an inspector. I feel what you are talking about in the Mod category as well. Not enough people who truly know how to inspect step up to the plate. Half the stuff out there could be ileagle. Look at the CMH record the last couple years. In and out, in and out. Makes no sense to me, but then I feel strongly about cheaters being punished far more than simply DQ at a race. That same engine could be used to ac***late points all year and then one time it is caught by a inspector that actually inspects more than gas. And wham, Mr. Legal all year trying to actually make a run on points is left sitting out in the dark. Fine way to run the show. To bad more people who don't race could not be an inspector. But then it ia just a backyard sport so why would we get anyone more than a current racer or current engine builder ?

Just some issues that seem to be accross the board in categories, now you guys can go back to saving stock outboard for the world.

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

another thought....

Good luck finding time to help inspect, Daren. Very tough to do for most of us. Between my sons racing all the the J - AXS classes and my class we have an entry in every set at the races we attend. That forces us to not be able to help even when we want to. I fell asleep last night, still switching restrictor plates in my mind.
Maybe the answer is to look outside of our drivers and ask our retired racers. Those that stay home and still have a love of the sport.
MHRA is lucky to have someone like Lou Howard who is a retired racer and a tough inspector. He comes to the race and sets up shop with nothing to worry about other that his job. Not sure if he gets paid for his efforts, but he should be. Maybe two nights in a hotel would be enough for some guys to come out and help.
As I said in an earlier post, my son got tossed for fuel by Lou Howard at our divisionals. Lou had time to run a citric nitrate test. Heck, I didnt even know what that was! We raced seven more weekends after that and never saw that test again. We would have run with our illegal fuel tank the rest of the year and not known different. (system 3 epoxy was used to build the tank and was deteriating in the tank causing an illegal reading)
Yesterday we were told at driver's meeting to bring our tools to inspection cause we would be getting our restrictor plates checked. I wanted to yell, "yea"!!!! But then I thought, heck, why were we told????
Well, I may be wrong but I didnt see anyones restrictor plate leave their motors. Why,,because they just dont have enough time or help.
So, maybe I am right..think of the old timer that you maybe see once a year at a regatta close to his home. That may be a resource that we need to tap into.

[Jeff Brewster 59s]

OOOhh, this is scary!!!!

A MOD GUY AND A STOCK GUY THINKING ALIKE!!! LOL!!!

Dave, at the same time I was typing my post, yours appeared.

Those that truly care, want to save all racing for the world!

[raceboat61-S]

More runabouts

We could add a lot more entries at each race if a lot more of our hydro drivers would load up a runabout on their trailers! The dwindling number of entries at our races is directly proportional to the reduction in the number of drivers who race both hydro and runabout. Another relatively inexpensive way to increase entries is for Stock drivers to get a Mod motor for the same boats (Mod guys do the same). We save almost enough gasoline and motel costs to buy a 2-cylinder Mod motor each year by racing both categories because we can usually find a race within 5 hours of home every weekend. Mike Marshall, Raceboat61-S

[stu_racing]

I think there are a lot of great ideas on this thread. The one thing I see here in Canada is the fact we have B classic hydro and D classic hydro. Here are two motors that have been pushed out of stock racing but are still running up here. The downfall of this is we are not making the race day shorter by having them run, but we need the two classes so our clubs can afford to continue to offer club races.

I personally run 20ssh and CSH. CSH doesn't need much help with entry numbers anywhere, but in some places (Canada) 20ssh does. The hull sizes and motor weights are close, and so are the speeds. Its hard for me to suggest to combine these two classes, but despite personal objection its very possible. The Y302 and Y102 are somewhat different in top end and torque, why can't we keep the Y80 weight at 400lbs, appealling to the driver not quite heavy enough for CSH and bury the Y302 and Y102 an extra 1/4", or whatever measurement that works in parity? I know last year I stepped up with my 20ssh in CSH and ran a 4th out of 9 boats and i wouldn't feel I'm very competitive nationals with this rig in 20ssh. This will help the Y102's and Y302's last longer by not heating them up while the Y80 slowly dies because it has to push the limits for water intake.

I like the idea of a spec class. Again, I am just going from my personal experience. But most of the Yamato's are sent to a couple guys in the States that build them and they are so close that its making CSH and 20ssh some of the most equal classes to race in. If you allow these few guys to do all the motors and seal them then it eliminates the guy that is doing the questionable stuff by himself/herself. Most of the top boats in each area all have legal rigs (for the exception of fuel because the rule needs to be ammended but thats another thread) because they are most likely to be torn down out of the entire field that participates.

I have a hard time complaining about our inspection. Here in Canada and region 2 were are blessed to have people like Dave Scott, John Webster, and Pat Davids as inspectors. Dave promotes races, races 2 classes, referees, and is an inspector so no one can ask for anything more from him. John Webster and Pat Davids show up to races and soley inspect. And even then they are extremely busy. So having a spec motor would at least eliminate the fear of cheating outside of fuel, height, weight, and restrictor plates.

A number of our retired racers (Gord McRady and Wayne Poapst) from the area also announce at each race to make it more viewer friendly.

So there's my two cents. Hopefully it will help rather than hinder our efforts to become a better sport.

[flaursen]

Inspectors

Where are the requirements to become a inspector I am not sure I can race but I certainly know enough about engines and how the work to inspect them

what are the rules for an inspector ? what organizations if any does the particular inspector have to belong

you all get the idea

Frank Laursen

[Blackhawkguy]

I generaly see the same complaint going on, to many heats to complete in one day of racing. Look at the problem as a simple math equation.

1. You can only run about 30 heats of racing in one day and keep the event to a reasonable lenth, thats 30 heats period, eliminations, finals, whatever you want to run 30 heats

2. Whether you have guys running three classes on the same boat, hydro and runabout with the same motor these can cause delays in the schedual due to changing of equipment from one class to the next

3. Whatever the club descides to run should revolve around the ability of them to make a schedual that is not more than 30 heats long, and will allow for people running multiple classes time to change over their equipment

I will give you and example of why some times being able to run multiple calsses on one boat is not always good. I used to race A, 15ss, B, and 25ss all on the same boat, only raced runabout but could of done the same in hydro, now try and plan a race schedual around someone like me, imagine if I raced both hydro and runabout. Now understand that a good B, 25ss boat is not a good A boat but still was competitive enough to race that class.

When I came back after the new OMC A, and Merc 25XS was out you had to have seperate type boats to race in these classes, yes that is a added expense to the racer but it helped emensly the planning of a schedual for a race committie.

I would spend a few hours on the race schedual for Grass Lake planning around what I knew people raced so that there was ample time for them to change classes so there was no delay in the event. More people running more classes is not going to fix the problem of long days. A planned day with a set time to start, and a set time to stop and a set amount of heats to run will make for a good race weekend. The trick is for the race chairman to understand what classes he or she can expect to have and wheather there will be iliminations in any of them.

If you have a strong 20ss field then run 20ss, if you know you are only going to get only three of one class and you already know you are pushing the 30 heat day, you may whant to e-mail or call those indaviduals to let them know that you may not be running their class this weekend. Our problem is we try to make everybody happy, if you have three people that refuse to give up a class, or that class is just not strong in your area it may help to try and get them into another class, you want them as a entry but just not two more heats to run in a already long day. When it's time to go to the divisioanls, or national they can run their favorite class.

There is no magic answer to how to make the sport better but simple math. A good planned out race weekend, help people to find equipment for classes that are strong in your area if they are running something that is week, even if you have to lone them stuff to race, A good race weekend is not just one with alot of entries, but alot of full classes and a well planned day.

Do this and the rest will fall into place. Planning, planning, planning

[raceboat61-S]

The thrust of my e-mail was to address dwindling numbers of entries from a fixed number of racers. Attracting new racers is discussed on other threads and there are some great ideas out there. I'd just like to see more crossover racers. More Mod guys with a Stock engine in their trailer and more hydro/runabout participants. Other threads also address the problem of too many OMC classes, too many Yamato classes, etc. I'd just like to see more entries from the same drivers that we know will show up in our current format. Increasing the number of 25SSR boats from the usual 4-6 up to 9-10 is GOOD and won't add to the length of racing day.
As I alluded to earlier, boats are relatively available and usually cheaper than buying an additional engine for a different class. Anyway, a reasonably talented racer can build a boat from scratch......try that with engine building. There are dozens of plans/kits available for whatever engine you already have. As I also said, we save gasoline and more importantly, TIME by selecting either Stock or Mod races that are closer to home. While I personally have the flexibility to take pre-race Friday's OFF, I really wouldn't have to if I was willing to drive later nto the night to be ready for the Saturday AM scramble to set-up, register, drivers's meeting, etc. There are many racers that have to take both Friday and Monday off to race their 1-2 classes. It is expensive to lose a couple workdays just to have the weather/water conditions cause you to travel to a cancelled race.
Bottomline.......Racing runabouts and Hydro's is MORE than twice as much fun. Likewise, mixing Stock and Mod is GREAT ! Try the cheaper, funner' option! Mike Marshall, Raceboat 61-S AMR, BSR, 2SSR, BMR, 25SSH, 25MH, CMH, etc