Stock Outboard Racing

[nbass]

Mix and Match

Then why not: If there are 10 boats in a class, they races as a class, else mix and match until each grouping has 10 boats. If there are four of a class let them be scored separately. So, everyone runs, 10 boats at a time, valid classes get scored. We used to call this alkey glop, so it could be stock/mod glop. More boats, every one runs hence more likely to draw more racers.

[Blackhawkguy]

I pretty much agree with your idea, all I was trying to say is be carefull what you wish for, no matter what motors you run, how many classes you run, you still can only get in so many heats in a day. The ability to run both hydros and runabouts has always been a great idea for more water time, still, not to many people do both. I have had the chance to do the local car track for about 8 years now, that is the one thing that was always nice, 20 minutes there, then home the same night. Believe it or not local car tracks are having the same issues as Stock Outboard, what do you run, keeping the show to a reasonable time. There is a track about 90 miles away that runs 150 cars every Sat night. They have a time provel formula, and stick to what has worked for them, some of the tracks closer to me have had issues with running the same classes on the same night, to many tracks to close for the amount of cars around, enough diferences in rules so a car that can run one class at one track cannot at the other. Needless to say they have just about put themselves out of bussiness, no cars, no people coming to watch cars.

[RLR]

stock/mod/pro

We keep talking about eliminating classes, but I think we miss the other half in not addressing the number of races that are somewhat geographically close. We have two sometimes 3 races within a 4 hour drive of one another and no one's figured out why we have 3 and 4 boat heats?????

Say what you will about the USTS, but when you go to a race we have 3 heats of racing for most everybody and when we have too many boats you might end up with two heats and not get into the 3rd and final heat. However you have 8-12 boats in almost every class and have 3 or 4 where we run a 5 heat format. Most always in a 4 hour format.

We run 5-6 races as USTS, a Nationals, and then our guys will go off to local races that put the Pro classes on. So all and all they get 10-12 races in each year. This way the Pro guys who run USTS races are getting full fields to run against some of the best in the country.

Now to address the number of races. How about the Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Wisc, IOA, Ohio clubs all getting together and pick 5 races in which they will not put a race against on that date and make it a joint club points race. This should ensure that you may draw 3-4 from each club and have a heck of race with 12 boats. Make them somewhat centrally located so that they can get to them.

The Ohio, Mich, Pa, southern NY area could do the samething. I just think if we are going to grow, interested parties want to know they are going to have more than 3 other boats to race against. The thought process says, if one or two of those guys do not show up at a race, I can't run becasue there won't be enough boats.

Address the number of races that overlap and I think you will begin to see good turnouts, if they are promoted and become joint ventures between clubs.

Ray

[Blackhawkguy]

We used to do this, it does help, I did notice that back in Sept, the mod guys had a race in Hillsdale the same weekend as the Stock Grass lake race, the Hillsdale race first started out racing in August, both great race coarses, but I also noticed that some of the Stock guys went to Hillsdale. Yes it is important to keep weekends clear of other races in the area, there is a certain mile radius but it does not affect other divisions, so a little planning between parties and it would help. One problem is some places we race are only available certain times of the year, or are tied in with some type of event. Planning several major races in the midwest is always a way to get 200 boats to show up. The Merc. Challenge is an example of how far people are willing to drive for a chance to win some money, and a ring at the end of the season. It worked once, maybee time to try something like it again.

[RLR]

Stock/Mod/Pro

Blackhawk,
You are on it!!!!. There are race courses that want a race on certain dates, take those and calendar them at the regional mtgs. Get our Chairmen/women of the regions to get with the other chairman and get their- has to be positively this date on the calendar- and then negotiate with each other and the clubs to get the RIGHT SCHEDULE put together for the betterment of all.

Having two or three races in Wisc-Illinois-Indiana-Mich on the same weekend with the same classes is ludicrous. I think we can draw the interest of outsiders if we show up with those 200 boats you talk about.

I appreicate your posts they are thoughtful and make me think, That is difficult at best.

Ray

[Blackhawkguy]

I have to apologise because I am at a little bit of disadvantage, my last racing season was 1995, my intent was to continue racing but things did not work out that way. I am not familiar with the current situation as far as classes go, also there seems to of been a breakdown within the division as far as working out race scheduals. We did not work with other catagories because we did not need to, we could pull 120 boats easily by just keeping dates open as has been discused. Maybe the problem is certain areas within the division are strong enough to hold races with out worrying about pulling boats from other states. we had this in the 70's and early 80's. You could hold a race in Wisc, Mich, Oh, Ind without needing boats from other states to fill classes, also seems that what boats you get are dilluted into to many classes so you get only three or four boats for a class. I can only speek from the races that MHRA ran being Constantine, Grass Lake, and Big Rapids. The first two races always drew boats from the division, alot of the time Constantine was the divisionals, the last race was always a club race, it never made money but had been a race for many years and was the last in the season for the state, so we kept it. It finaly made money the year we started the Marathon series, that added 40 entries for the weekend and that put us back in the black. It would draw boats from Wisc, and Min because there would not be any races that weekend for them, but only a few. Working out schedual problems is very important, it seems with this new electonic method of passing information it would be easier than ever. Getting clubs to add a class or two that may help fill out the schedual for them and bring in a few entries is even better yet. We found that by running a marathon, you get 20 more entries a day for only a little more time than it takes to run a regular heat, turn it into a series and people will travel. There are allot of good ideas posted around this web site, talk is cheap. People need to pass these ideas to the commisioners and ask for action, then those empowerd to represent the racers need to put their heads together and excecute a plan. Sounds easy right? I hope to see some of you in the future at the race coarse.

Kerry

[Dave M]

Interesting Point

We used to do this, it does help, I did notice that back in Sept, the mod guys had a race in Hillsdale the same weekend as the Stock Grass lake race, the Hillsdale race first started out racing in August, both great race coarses, but I also noticed that some of the Stock guys went to Hillsdale. Yes it is important to keep weekends clear of other races in the area, there is a certain mile radius but it does not affect other divisions, so a little planning between parties and it would help. One problem is some places we race are only available certain times of the year, or are tied in with some type of event. Planning several major races in the midwest is always a way to get 200 boats to show up. The Merc. Challenge is an example of how far people are willing to drive for a chance to win some money, and a ring at the end of the season. It worked once, maybee time to try something like it again.

Kerry,

You said run for money..... my last race we won just over $600.00. $606.00 to be exact. This was NBRA. They have it figured out on how to promote a race, have combined classes of mod and stock to form one category. They put on a quality show at places they are truly wanted. It is easy to get money from locals when you are asked to race there....

Point being, money does not draw racers, that is obvious otherwise Shelbyville would have had more trailers there, and it would have been like a Nationals.

I keep hearing all these ideas and I have to be honest, people don't seem to research much before they toss ideas out there. I am probably guilty of that as well. But if you guys would look at the NBRA format, you might learn some answers to a lot of your questions. In addition, you can see results to the implemented ideas. NBRA has a link on the front page, and their own forum thread. I know for a fact some of the guys look at this site. Anyone wanting to know more can obtain a rulebook and see. Why not come over and try one of their races. They have insurance, so don't let that scare you away. The IL races are close for a lot of the Region 6 members, and obviously close for a lot of the Region 7 members of APBA.

All I can say is it sure was nice to pay for ALL expenses with my winnings and still have enough left over to almost buy a new prop...........

[Blackhawkguy]

Hey Dave, how is your mom and dad?
Yeah, all I am refering to are some things that have worked in the past. A series race circut has a tendancy to get people to travel. Combining mods and stocks has worked to, I kow I ran CSR the first year of the Hillsdale race, it was an off weekend for stocks so was not a problem, just noticed it moved to the same weekend of Grass Lake, wich is a huge stock race, or was. As has been said several times what works for one area does not work for another. Hope to see you next season. Whatever happened to that huge trailer your dad built back in 1979, you had to be young but am sure it was around for awhile, I think I asked him one time when he was delivering battieries to Vic's but forgot. I think there are enough smart people in the race community to solve the issues, something else that may work is a person to promote races, like the car tracks do, an indavidual who finds race sites to race at and just promotes races, they would have to get help from clubs at first but maybe after a few races they would be able to swing it on their own, kinda like USTS. They could run the classes they feel would draw the most boats, without being afiliated with a club they are not forced to play by the same rules as a club race, still has to belong to the APBA but can make descisions based on what is needed to draw the most boats, not just run all classes.

Take care bud, see you soon

[Big Don]

We used to do this, it does help, I did notice that back in Sept, the mod guys had a race in Hillsdale the same weekend as the Stock Grass lake race, the Hillsdale race first started out racing in August, both great race coarses, but I also noticed that some of the Stock guys went to Hillsdale. Yes it is important to keep weekends clear of other races in the area, there is a certain mile radius but it does not affect other divisions, so a little planning between parties and it would help. One problem is some places we race are only available certain times of the year, or are tied in with some type of event. Planning several major races in the midwest is always a way to get 200 boats to show up. The Merc. Challenge is an example of how far people are willing to drive for a chance to win some money, and a ring at the end of the season. It worked once, maybee time to try something like it again.

When Region 7 was trying to find a weekend to put our Pleasant Prairie race on. It was agreed upon at our Region meeting that it had to happen in September. So we picked the 3rd weekend knowing that two Region 6 races, Grass Lake & Big Rapids were the first two weekends and we didn't want to go up against one of those races and steal entries from each other. Boy was I shocked to see a race in their own Region scheduled against Grass Lake 60 miles away. I understand there might be an argument that it was the only weekend they could get ...they can't get the water a different weekend...it was a Mod race not a Stock race... Just wondering why that weekend?

Also why was Brighton on the weekend that it was? We held our Pleasant Prairie race that weekend. It would be nice if we could stay off each other weekends so those of us that want to support each others races can.

[Dave M]

Sold

Hey Dave, how is your mom and dad?
Whatever happened to that huge trailer your dad built back in 1979, you had to be young but am sure it was around for awhile, I think I asked him one time when he was delivering battieries to Vic's but forgot.

Take care bud, see you soon

Parents are doing well, all geared up to go fishing next year. The big whit trailer we parked in 1989 after the mod nats in Mountain Home AR. Sat until a year ago when we finally sold it to a snowmobile guy for a hundred bucks. Of course we took the slide out racks out and motor racks, etc. Amazing the wheels still turned, and the tires were not flat........ Dick Byers built that one, he did good !! Heavier than hell, 10,000 pounds but back then Aluminum was not used in trailers.
Have a good one, and thanks for your contributions to keeping our country free and safe from enemies. It means more to us than most will admit.

[dcrummett]

Dave,

Thanks for your input on NBRA's races. We, too, have problems from time to time with sites etc., but it does work overall. It's one of the better kept secrets in boat racing.

And yes, we do have insurance...the same insurance as APBA.

Dan
O-49