Why Not Combine Classes?

[Abbott Racing]

I figured I would step into the deep end here and start a thread that could help race organizers on how to make the program stronger and simpler.

When I was a kid, it was easy to follow the races as the classes were simply A,B,C,D Stock Hydro and Runabout, then A,B,C,D Racing hydro and runabout (Pro).

The fields were full, and racing was close and exciting. These days we have tons of classes, not all are full and the race programs are long!

So here are my ideas on how we can change things to perhaps change things;

J Class would stay as is with the OMC and Merc
A Class would use the OMC, Merc and the proposed new Hot Rod
B Class would use the Hot Rod and Yamato 80
C Class would use the Yamato 102, 302, Merc 25SS
D Class would use the Merc 44XS, Tohatsu, OMC 45SS

Of course there would have to be discussion on Restrictors etc.... but essentially groups these together same weights just different motor options.

So that being said that is my 2 cents worth, I would like to here your ideas.

[fitsracing]

Where do the modifieds go?

[Abbott Racing]

I think the Mods are pretty good with the AMOD thru FEH, seeing as we generally run the stocks and mods together on the same weekends, so with the Stocks going, with the A,B,C .....format and the mods already doing that it makes a fairly simple format.

[HRTV]

Where do the modifieds go?

The minute you start adding the mod stuff back into the list there goes the whole idea of making it a shorter day etc. I don’t have all the answers but if a new person were to ask me about mod classes I would suggest they join the USTS and go Pro racing.

[Andrew 4CE]

Bob, only God knows why this works in every other motor sport on earth and not stock outboard boat racing... lol.

I think part of the problem is there are MANY racers who don't want full classes. For every competive racer I bet there are 2 that just want to go out and have some fun. Boat racing has an inherient problem, the farther back in the pack you are, the more you get beat to death from rough water. Outfits currently are not designed/setup to work well in the back of the pack. The guys/gals who want to have fun pick the classes that have lower enties. If all classes had full fields I think our numbers would drastically drop. That might be for the better in the long run, as new people coming in know what to expect. But in the short term times would be tough.

I'm still for it though as things have gotten out of hand and hosting a grass roots sport with 30!! potential classes is plain and simple, rediculous.

[Andrew 4CE]

In the old days... did Mods run with Stock? Or is that new in the last 20 years because of the lack of numbers? Growing up I don't remember seeing mods at all. If anything I remember races with Pro and Stock. Maybe that was a Canadian thing though.

[Abbott Racing]

From what I remember the PRO division was the old racing division, and in that was things like the Evinrudes, Loopers, Quincy's, etc.....

At one point the C racing class used to be the old PR's and I even remember them running against the konigs at Valleyfield.

Somehere along the line I think the mod division evolved when the alky burning Konigs and Cresents etc.... came along. If there is any of our more veteran racing members reading this please feel free to offer insight etc.....

[Lights]

I like the class structure you cam up with Bob. I think it would work. I have brought combining the 25SSH with the CSH's and everyone tells me it can't be done. But does not explain why. Can someone tell me why it would not be a good match?

[G Stillwill]

Basiclly boats have became designed for the class that they run which means they have became smaller for the class that they run. Pretty much the biggest reason the speed for each class has gotten faster. Now if you combine some of the classes the bigger boats dig such holes the smaller boats cant handle the rough water, example send out a heat of J's and A's
as full heat of CSH or CSR are comming in , the water is still so chopped up its a hand full just to mill for the start. Years ago boat makers made two sizes one for A/B and one for C/D then around 1960 there was one for A, one for B and one for C/D but still not alot of differance in sizes There is a saying "Size Does Make A Differance"

[Ron Hill]

It Will Never Work.

The problem with combining classes is all the boats currently running are so specialized, so trick, so cool, and so fast, that they can't run in water that has any chop.....

Questions:

1. Why did the Pro Division rule out tunnel boats??? Answer: OPC Sport "E", were legally PRO E's and F's... They did several things "WRONG" in the eyes of the PRO DIVISION. One, they burned gas. Two, they had electric starters. Three, they could and would run all day, every day. Four, they could turn sharper than a hydro..... So, the answer for these new comers was to kick them out...(An OPC "E" did win National High Point)....

APBA has ALWAYS passed rules against NEW ideas so to protect the status quo....(Don't screw with my class, start your own)...

Jay Root built a tunnel boat with a Mercruiser and ran it in inboard hydro. The INBOARD DIVISION took care of Jay. They passed a rule against any trimable drive...(Jay didn't win the Nationals but lead and scared the fire out of the inboard hydro people)...

2. Why do we "BOW" to 12 boats as a full field? My brother ran against 32 "A" Hydros in the 1949 Hearst Newspaper Regatta...35,000 spectators...Havasu and Parker use to run over 100 boats at a time. NASCAR starts, what 43 cars....How cool would it be to watch three Dodges run for fiv laps. Then three or four Chevies???

3. Why not more laps for more boats? 10 boats, ten laps...20 lap main???

4. Why clock starts?

5. Why not Modified LeMans starts??? (Easy to announce who is racing, who is your sponsors, where you are in points...with clock starts all you hear is noise with boats running all over the lake)...

6. Why have a MOD/PRO/STOCK Division? (Divisions by speed?? Transom height rules???)

7. WHY AREN'T ALL KNEELER RULES, for CONDUCTIONG a race, the same????

8. Why don't more classes have Nationals at different locations?? FYI: 45SST, in the stock Division, have already had their Nationals for this year. The SHORT COURSE Nationals were at Bakersfield. And the Marathon Nationals were at Indio. By having this classes's Nationals, at a NON FIVE-SEVEN day regatta, the races had more racers, some racers were able to race in their FIRST APBA Nationals...

9. Why not two levels of CLASSES? Like National and Local.... Local classes would have Nationals wherever they were bid for? The National Nationals would run NATIONAL NOVICE (J), A, Hot Rod, C, Classic (D).


****Hot Rod would be the classes name....and many COMBINED motors would be run in these NATIONAL CLASSES...

10. Combined Classes WOULD BE NATIONAL CLASSES: Why not DESIGN a hydro for each class and a runabout? THESE DESIGNS WOULD HAVE HEAVIER WEIGHTS THAN CURRENT WEIGHTS. RUNABOUTS WOULD HAVE 10 TO 12 HIGH SIDES, A BOTTOM WIDTH, AND FINS ON THE BOTTOM, TELESCOPIC NOSE PIECES LIKE OPC PICKLE FORKS.

HYDROS WOULD HAVE SPONSON DEPTH, BOTTOM WIDTH, COCKPIT COMBING HEIGHT AND SPECS, TELESCOPIC PICKLE FORKS LIKE OPC...

The botom Line: Most NORMAL people want to get up, eat breakfast and enjoy their day. Toward evening they like to eat dinner at a reasonable time... We have all seen the results of racing from dawn til dark.

We race one boat in SST 45, on a weekend, it takes at least three people working full time to keep this boat running. We ran two boats, last race, and it came close to killing us.

Look around and ask yourself why did so and so quit??? Why did so and so go go kart racing???

Last question:

11. Why does the ENTRY LEVEL OF APBA,as kneelers is considered, require you to take a week or more off work to run at the Nationals...? You could race at the Indianapolis 500 and not miss work or school.

Does anyone realize that there are less than five Stock drivers in Region 12 anymore? And for the last five years, on the same weekend as the Nationals, there has been a boat race at Long Beach, California, at the Marine Stadium, one of the finest bodies of water in the world to race on....Not one kneeler has showed up for this race, because they all traveled to some place east of the Mississippi to race the NATIONALS....This Long Beach race has more than 100 entries and thousands of spectators....I've had people ask me where are the little boats? I say they went to the Nationals...

If we had a LOCAL CLASS NATIONALS, maybe someone would race little boats in SoCAL....

ADD: The problem is, if I was appointed the "KING", I'd make rules and no one would want to do it my way...they'd rather run against three boats for three laps, and be NATIONAL SOMETHING....

[PopPop]

Too many classes //

Bob, only God knows why this works in every other motor sport on earth and not stock outboard boat racing... lol.

Stock outboard racing is supposed to be an "everymans" sport and as such attempts to be democratic with every thing run by commities and everyones wishes concidered. Eveyone knows that a "Camel is a horse designed by a committee. No one could decide if they should have one hump or two, so the made both". Other motorsports are dictated by a promoter with the idea of putting on a good show. So, unless we change, don't confuse Stock Outboard racing with other motorsports.
That's my two cents!

[csh12M]

25/csh

The 25SSH goes 71-73 MPH, the CSH goes 68-69 MPH

CSH12M

[DougMc]

So here are my ideas on how we can change things to perhaps change things;

J Class would stay as is with the OMC and Merc
A Class would use the OMC, Merc and the proposed new Hot Rod
B Class would use the Hot Rod and Yamato 80
C Class would use the Yamato 102, 302, Merc 25SS
D Class would use the Merc 44XS, Tohatsu, OMC 45SS

.

That would work for me.

[Ron Hill]

Reread George's Post

George Stillweel is SO RIGHT....That is why, combined Divisions would need rules for each Division...AND I'd suggest larger boats for all combined Divisions because the goal would be more boats, more laps and easier to drive boats...

Older boats could be allowed to race in combined classes, but they would be ruled out in five years, and a transom height, in the mean time, would slow these ROCKETS in the mean time...

Tell me when a diver like Captian America CRASHES lke he did...How can a crash like this ever be good for a HOBBYIST SPORT????

ADD: 25 and CSH combines... Lower the transome height on a 25 another inch, if they are too fast.

[HRTV]

Check out this photo taken at Lake Havasu AZ last month, can you count the number of PWC in the line for the lemans start You guys are just beating a dead horse to death! Since when is a 3 boat class racing ? The guys in this photo are hard core racers and thats what they show up tp do. No pretty boys attend these races.

Hard core real racing

Three boats in a heat! what a waste of time.

Sad and pretty funny I think