Why Not Combine Classes?

[Andrew 4CE]

Stock outboard racing is supposed to be an "everymans" sport and as such attempts to be democratic with every thing run by commities and everyones wishes concidered. Eveyone knows that a "Camel is a horse designed by a committee. No one could decide if they should have one hump or two, so the made both". Other motorsports are dictated by a promoter with the idea of putting on a good show. So, unless we change, don't confuse Stock Outboard racing with other motorsports.
That's my two cents!

I don't believe being run by a commitee as opposed to being dictated to by a racing league is what makes it an everymans sport. Affordability and camaraderie makes it an everymans sport. The fact that it's not a big cash winning sport.

There are LOTS of other sports out there for the weekend warrior on a budget. These sports all survive without having 30+ classes to suit every motor and person there is. THere are some real odd ball sports too that have no factory support and no spectators too.

I'd love to see a Ron Hill spec class started after the classes are compressed.

[nightmoves]

The 25SSH goes 71-73 MPH, the CSH goes 68-69 MPH

CSH12M

One is out of production, one new technology and readily available.

[johnml390]

I like the way the NBRA does it class combinations.
We run 16 classes and the schedule goes by fairly quickly.
All Stock motors are combined with a MOD of the same speed, and if there is a speed difference the wieghts are arranged to give everyone a chance at winning.
A Runabout/Hydro Stock motors = Yamato 80
MOD motors = Merc KG-4 and MK-15,Hot Rod A,Merc 20H
B Runabout/Hydro Stock = Yamato 102,202,302(Runabout Only!!!),Merc or Mariner 25XS
MOD =Merc 20H,Hot Rod B,OMC and Merc 25Hp(B1 engines)
C Runabout Stock = None
MOD = Yamato 202,302,Merc 30,Chrysler 302-304,Yamato102,Merc 25XS,Yamaha 25,
D Runabout/Hydro Stock=Merc 44,Tohatsu50
MOD =merc 40
E Runabout/Hydro Stock = None
MOD = Merc 44,
Super E Runabout/Hydro Stock = None
MOD = OMC 44-49,merc MK 75-650,
Novice Stock = Yamato 80 (Restricted) as well as an OMC 15
MOD = None
C Stock Hydro Stock = Yamato 102,202,302
MOD = None
B 1 Hydro Stock = None
MOD = Merc 25SS,OMC 22,Yamato 80,
C Modified Hydro Stock = None
MOD = Merc 30,Chrysler302-304, Yamato202,302,
Modified 25 Hydro Stock = None
MOD = Yamato 102, Merc 25XS,

[Dr. Thunder]

Probably worthwhile to re-read a thread of several years ago ... and then ask ourselves what we have learned in the interim ...

Dan ... you are quietly making very valid points ... Isn't anybody listening?

http://216.120.234.56/forums/showthr...1&page=1&pp=15

[acr924]

Probably worthwhile to re-read a thread of several years ago ... and then ask ourselves what we have learned in the interim ...

Dan ... you are quietly making very valid points ... Isn't anybody listening?

http://216.120.234.56/forums/showthr...1&page=1&pp=15

There are plenty of good points being made. Anyone who ever visited HydroRacer has probably seen a thread about fixing the problems with our sport and helping it grow. There's a TON of those threads out there. The combination of classes..or getting rid of a few altogether...this idea has been thrown out there plenty of times. No matter how many ideas we come up with..none of them are going to work if we don't DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. Most boatracers I know, including committee members of some kind visit hydroracer, but how come nothing is being changed? Because as far as I know, there have been no proposals or anything of that sort to a committee to combine classes. These ideas aren't going to take themselves to the Stock Commission. (or whereever they go)

George Stillwill makes good points as well: WE designed this sport, WE should be able to amend it as we see fit.

Dr. Thunder: You're absolutely right, we've been trying the SAME things for years, maybe people should start listening because a lot of people have theories that would work.

my two cents,
Allie Runne

[Kristi Ellison]

You could try the USTS format WITHOUT cutting classes. Instead of running all the classes 2 heats both days.....why not divide the field in half and go to 3 heat racing. Half the field runs 3 heats on Saturday and the other half runs 3 heats on Sunday.

For example:

If you have 24 classes scheduled that is 48 heats each day (wow).
If you run 12 classes on Saturday and divide it into 3 flights of 4 classes( or 2 flights of 6)
and run through each flight 3X that is only 36 heats. reducing each day by 12 heats would get you drinking beer a whole lot earlier.

Just a thought.

Kristi

[DougMc]

There are plenty of good points being made. Anyone who ever visited HydroRacer has probably seen a thread about fixing the problems with our sport and helping it grow. There's a TON of those threads out there. The combination of classes..or getting rid of a few altogether...this idea has been thrown out there plenty of times. No matter how many ideas we come up with..none of them are going to work if we don't DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. Most boatracers I know, including committee members of some kind visit hydroracer, but how come nothing is being changed? Because as far as I know, there have been no proposals or anything of that sort to a committee to combine classes. These ideas aren't going to take themselves to the Stock Commission. (or whereever they go)

George Stillwill makes good points as well: WE designed this sport, WE should be able to amend it as we see fit.

Dr. Thunder: You're absolutely right, we've been trying the SAME things for years, maybe people should start listening because a lot of people have theories that would work.

my two cents,
Allie Runne

I don't know. Is it that the ideas are just brought up on hydroracer.net, but not brought to the Commissions or is it the Commissions just not have the votes to make a change? Is there an offical form to fill out to propose an idea that needs to be filled out. A lot of times in state legislative politics votes never come up because they don't have the votes and don't want to waste time. Maybe that's part of it, I don't know.

Last year I made a suggestion of making the 202 a legal stock motor on Ed Hearn's link looking for ideas. I was happy to see it added to the agenda even though it did not pass. I emailed as may commissioners as possible to promote my idea, but only two responded to my e-mail. Maybe I should have gone to the meeting to promote my idea or tried to call them on the telephone.

Here in Region 5 there are two or three 202 rigs that cannot run CSH. At this time the 202s cannot run CSH, which means CSH may be bascially a dead class in Region 5. The bigger guys don't/won't run OSY, except for me. Without my running both OSY and CSH neither would have enough to make a class. One of the two classes should go. Maybe it only happens when I pull the plug on one of the two.

[DeanFHobart]

YES Kristi.....

Kristi,

You are so correct....... at a two day boat race all classes do not have to run both days.

The USTS format is the way to go. However, not everyone thinks this way. The three heat format gives you a chance to come back if you miss one heat for some reason.

AOF in Spokane, WA. runs the three heat format.

When I first started racing in the 60's, most races were only on Sundays..... we tested on Saturday.......... what a concept!!!!!!!!!! We could run 2 years on a set of rings....... in Stock of course.

[CSR4C]

For the last several years I have racing at the marathon nationals. I have quit racing at the closed course nationals (although I try to attend to watch the racing & hang out with my friends)

At the marathon nationals.

1. The racing starts at noon, we are finished by 2pm

2. No elemintion heats, everyone races in the main event.

3. We do not get blown out!

Last year there were 19 CSRs, 11 DSRs. This year there will be over 25 CSRs with drivers from 3 or 4 countries.

[dholt]

Economics drive the schedule

In case anyone has forgotten, the race schedule at any race can be as small or as large as the host club wants to make it.

If you've got the boats (entry money) to cover costs with a small schedule, then go for it.

Or, if you can generate sponsor money (like the USTS must do), then you can run short program.

This combination idea is NEVER going to fly. We've all read/witnessed the Yamato/Merc attempt in 25ssR. Can you imagine the fiasco trying to achieve parity by combining 4-5 other classes?

There are plenty of clubs around the country NOT running 40 heats or more a day. TRORA, MHRA, IOA and the group from Jersey...to name a few.

Pure and simple. Do not put weak classes on the schedule. Let people know...this is what we're running....if you want to join in...get in on one of the classes we schedule.

Until the SORC develops a plan to get rid of the dead weight classes...then it's up to the clubs.


Dana

[Bob Dunlap]

The 25SSH goes 71-73 MPH, the CSH goes 68-69 MPH

CSH12M

That is one of the simple fixes, any one or all of 3 ways, add weight, lower propshaft, add restrictor!

[Brian10s]

In case anyone has forgotten, the race schedule at any race can be as small or as large as the host club wants to make it.
Until the SORC develops a plan to get rid of the dead weight classes...then it's up to the clubs.
Dana

These are the 2 most important/ relevant sentences in this entire thread.

The CLUBS can pick want they want to run. What is run is on the sanction. If you only want to see racing for 3 hrs a day, count the number of classes on the sanction. If there is more that 12-15 classes - don't go, you will be unhappy because the race day will be longer than 3 hours. This is not rocket science, you can run 8-10 heats per hour, do the math when you get the sanction. For those that want to watch racing and/ or run multiple classes (other than the standard Yamato Hydro classes CSH, 20SSH, BMH & CMH) or for clubs that survive on entry fee's, it is up to them to make the schedule and complete it. It needs to be the choice of the clubs and the drivers.

That brings me to my second point. Why would you be waiting for the SORC, MORC or PROC to cut classes/ combine. You want classes cut, each driver needs to take responsibility themselves. The clubs will run whatever they can to keep financially solvent and keep members happy and working. If the drivers want to run 2 person CSH and 30 show up at a race site with money in hand, it will go on the water, without a doubt. If the drivers are willing to pay $200 per entry, I am sure a club will only put on 6 - 10 classes and make it a real short day. Or get sponsors like USTS. They did it and it works for them. I would not think the USTS could survive on just entry fees, that's why they have to have sponsors. (that is just my perception - I could be wrong) It works for them but to say it would work for every club is crazy. Most clubs/ members don't travel the country like a USTS member. Most Stock & Mod drivers are more regional - that is a big difference.

My point is the USTS did not get the PROC to change, the USTS did their own thing and it worked out. If any other club wants to do something different, they are free to do so. Step up with your club and try it.

Just quit whinning about your commissions not cutting the race day down - it is not their job to manage everybody's races.

[rich]

The 25SSH goes 71-73 MPH, the CSH goes 68-69 MPH

CSH12M

Does the yamato not have better acceleration then a 25xs?
It is my assumpition that the race times are pretty close.

[Lights]

That is one of the simple fixes, any one or all of 3 ways, add weight, lower propshaft, add restrictor!

I think your right Bob And it would help at are local races. Where we only have about 3 CSH and 3 25SSH.

[14-H]

***
Just quit whinning about your commissions not cutting the race day down - it is not their job to manage everybody's races.

Brian: on this point, I agree with you 100%. That is the beauty of the system we have: the individual race sites or clubs can try different things and see what works, what doesn't, what the drivers or sponsors like and what they don't. The great thing about this system is that we can all watch and see what works since so many clubs do things differently.

Quite frankly, it's improper, I think, to ask any Commission to run a regatta. That's what the race committee is for.