KPRO age

[BratChild]

in that case axsh and axsr shouln,d have anyone over a certain age it is suppose to be a stepping stone older drivers have too much of a ADVANTAGE. IT,S NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS

I agree with what you're talking about, and I know who you are talking about. The youngest driver at Lake Placid Race 2 this year was your son Booga who is 14? or 13 im not sure one of the two. The oldest was......a lot older than the rest of us. What we are talking in KPRO is the difference between 11 and 17. And just because you are 17 doesn't mean you have more experiance. It could be your first year, just like the 11 year old. Not much difference, really. George has been racing...forever and the rest of us maybe except wally are rather new. This is Andy and my third year, and for Booga his second. I agree, that is not fair. But when you are a first year driver at age 17 and a first year driver at 11, the only real difference is that the 17 year old has driving on the road experiance, while the 11 year old does not. And sometimes that doesn't always mean that much; although sometimes it does. I agree, maybe in AXS the older drivers should run strictly ASh and higher, but in KPRO, the step up isn't from 49 to 55. Its from 57 to 75ish...a difference of almost 20 miles an hour with a trickier boat. Not 6mph in the same boat. The difference is much greater, and the PRO drivers who aren't ready for the step up have really no other option but to quit and maybe test the class until they are ready to race it. For me, I am fortunate enough to run both PRO and STOCK for the boat time, but I still am not ready. When your cousin breaks his neck in the sport that you love, you are going to be procautious and really be ready when you want to step up. You're not just going to do it because it is the only way you can run PRO.

amy

ps walter: what are your kids running at lake wales this weekend?

[ChrisH]

How much sugar was in your cereal this morning?

[BratChild]

How much sugar was in your cereal this morning?

I didn't eat breakfast thank you very much...
And you need to bring miss lindsay to the race this weekend so i can get her raceified!!!

amy

[RuthieRae]

On an additional note, this class was never intended to be a Novice type class....it has always been about kids, and having a "J" type class in the pro category so that kids could race. Doc Collins spent a lot of time and money supporting this class and dragging stuff all over the country to help out the kids....of course at the time we had Novice 350....which was a transitional type class to get people going. I know OSY is brutal, but for the older newer drivers it seems to be a good place to start. There is a lot of competition, great driving experiences, and you can start at 14. I think that a lot of the converstation here is focusing on Novice rather than Kid, and the class isn't and never was set up that way. It is solely to have a place for kids to race in the pro category. I think that 18 is kind of pushing it for a "kid" and I think that a lot of age swapping has already happened in this class historically, but it was orginally intended to kind of have a younger age limit so that it didn't interfere with the Novice classes. I could be wrong, but way way way back when, I did used to race JPro.......for Doc.

[wdlong1226]

amy

thanks for airing that out now go take a nap i,m exausted. i guess some things are just not fair and we have to DEAL with it . kind of like us losing our race site to a titlle series it deffinetly was not right if i would have known that from the start i would NOT have supported that site

[BratChild]

On an additional note, this class was never intended to be a Novice type class....it has always been about kids, and having a "J" type class in the pro category so that kids could race. Doc Collins spent a lot of time and money supporting this class and dragging stuff all over the country to help out the kids....of course at the time we had Novice 350....which was a transitional type class to get people going. I know OSY is brutal, but for the older newer drivers it seems to be a good place to start. There is a lot of competition, great driving experiences, and you can start at 14. I think that a lot of the converstation here is focusing on Novice rather than Kid, and the class isn't and never was set up that way. It is solely to have a place for kids to race in the pro category. I think that 18 is kind of pushing it for a "kid" and I think that a lot of age swapping has already happened in this class historically, but it was orginally intended to kind of have a younger age limit so that it didn't interfere with the Novice classes. I could be wrong, but way way way back when, I did used to race JPro.......for Doc.

In a way, I have to agree with you. But what about the drivers who only run PRO and nothing else? I know in the US Title Series, as of last year there were 9 kpros registered and only 2 of them, Joel Brown and myself, were the only ones who ran both PRO and another catagory. The other 7 strictly run KPRO and nothing else. So when they reach 16, what are they going to do? Like I said, if they are not ready, they are not going to do it. I am good friends with all of them and I know that. And I don't think that they should be pushed to keep racing (a higher class) than have a few more years in a class with younger drivers like themselves and get that experiance. Like Nic said earlier, would you want to be out there going 75-100+mph with a driver who has only had 1 year racing experiance in KPRO but they turned 16 and had to go to another class and still didn't know everything they should about racing? In a field of 12 boats and a driver who doesn't really know what they're doing going that fast, there's going to be trouble. I mean, I know that the first time I went out in JSH, it was basically my first race and another 9 year old's first race, but there were also 2 other nine year olds so it was three 9 year olds vs a 13 year old...even for it being my first race, I was really scared. I had never seen these drivers before in my life and I didn't know if they would run into me or small things like that. And it was MY first race not theirs(except for that one, but he stayed in the back the whole time, he didn't know what he was doing). But seriously, if we want to keep boat racing safe and not have as many accidents caused by driver error, why would we put drivers who are young and don't know everything they should know before racing with a large field of boats with some awesome drivers, putting all of them in danger? I have seen some pretty rough drivers out there, and I don't want to risk seeing them moving up to higher classes putting more at risk because they have to. When you are going faster, it is harder to control what you're doing than when you are going 55ish.
And as you said, you can run OSY when you are 14, but how many people already run the class? I checked last years OSY driver registered in OSY and there were about 90. And if I were to ask how many crashes there were in the class, I think the answer would be rather high. We are kids! We don't want to go out with a bunch of (don't take this personally, it IS a good thing!) older guys and girls who have been racing for many years when we have only been racing a few. Do we want to kick people out of racing just because they can't get used to faster classes? Of the people last year in KPRO registered in USTS, when this rule takes effect in 2007, there will be 2 drivers left eligible to run the class!! We do not want to get rid of the class, but if no other drivers come into the class, we are not going to have even enough boats to run! If this rule doesn't go into effect, 8 drivers will still be eligible to run in 2007. Why take away all the drivers who are still learning and put them in a bigger class with very experianced drivers? Accidents are waiting to happen. I am accident prone as it is, at racing and sports; and I know that when I go out in ASH and AXSH and there are older(wiser) drivers out there, I get really scared when I go around them, because I think if I do something wrong I will look really stupid and them knowing that I did something wrong close to them, they will get mad also, and it will be very easy to point out what I did because they have so much experiance. Leave the class as it is. The younger drivers get an experiance with older drivers, and the older drivers push the younger drivers to do better(not physically, but in other ways). If all you had was young drivers, they wouldn't have anyone out there with them who knew what they were doing! And if you say that this class is not about novice or rookies, then why lower the age? That is making it more rookie and novice! Leave it alone, the class is fine. The only reason people want to change it is so the older drivers will stop beating all the little guys. Well, I was a little guy once, my second race being the nationals at DePue with 12 boats, and I got 4th! Yes, some people jumped the gun, but I had to learn to drive with the older kids who knew what they were doing. By watching them and following what they were doing, I learned a lot. That is what the class is all about; learning. All the classes in a way are about learning, but KPRO is the beginning class for most young drivers in the PRO catagory. And another thing; most of the KPRO drivers are strictley PRO, and some view OSY as a stock class, just as KPRO is, but it is a learning class and has been involved in the catagory for a long time, and is acceptable. Pretty much the only options for most of the drivers is 125 after KPRO; a class that at the nationals has on average 15-20 entries and counting. Who are we trying to kid? Don't change the age of the class, change other rules about the class!
So the rule was changed so that younger drivers had the chance to win? Maybe racing isn't all about winning, especially for a young driver. Maybe it's about learning and getting experiance and having a good time. I love to win, but I also love to have a good time. I know Travis had a blast out in the boat at Raleigh. Talking to him Saturday night at the drivers party, he was ecstatic! I don't think he has a problem with running against older drivers. He is just an example, but I know he is having fun whether he is winning or not. Winning is just a slight bonus to the fun and excitement that comes with boat racing. Why should we have to get out of this fun class when we are young, only to go into a class that IS about winning and you have to be extremely careful what you do, with the mental thinking(at least I have it) that you don't want to get in the older(nicer) drivers ways. We're kids! Let us have fun while we can!!
Oh, and Kristi...think of it this way...do you really want to be racing against me????

Amy

[joelbrown]

amy u better calm down with the typing ur fingers might light on fire u write alot

[RuthieRae]

I don't think that it really is going to make a difference if the KPro age is 16 or 64, you are still going to have to face drivers in the faster classes who have no experience, regardless. There are people out there (most have a few screws loose if you ask me) who see pro racing and decide that is what they want to do and hop in a 350, or what have you. We face those 12 boat fields with new drivers in every class and have no control over their years of experience. Because there are so many options in stock, the KPro class was added to Pro for the families who don't run the other categories, but it was intended for young kids. It is understandable there are concerns, but so far the age rule has only aided people in taking advantage of the young drivers, not helped kids learn and grow with PRO racing. When you say most Kpro drivers are strictly PRO, that must be just the USTS drivers. Out here, we run Stock, Mod and Pro at every race and every one of our drivers run all three categories. I do have a kid, who yes has started racing, and I can see why you all want to have that last year of racing, but like I said, the previous rule only allowed for people to take advantage of the class, its drivers, and what it was originally intended to do. The only place I see a concern is with the USTS because they are strictly a PRO club. Maybe that should be looked at in the future to give these kids some options. Just a thought, I am not talking about changing the entire program, maybe just add a class or two. We have so many options across the three categories, I know for me, I am not sure I want my daughter running KPRO, but of course we will see. Because she is so new, I think she would have to have some experience under her belt before I would put her in that class. She will be 11 on Wednesday. I am not arguing that there are concerns, but I can see why the rule was changed. The class was meant for kids to go out, learn and have a good time doing so and when the category or commission was able to see that it was being taken advantage of, they took the necessary steps to rectify the situation, maybe they will do the same for your concerns.
Sheryl

[wdlong1226]

amy

never mind writing i can,t read that much in one day

[Nilsen Racing]

Amy, you have made some excellence points. Kudos to you. Plus, you are obviously very passionate about your thoughts. Right or wrong, you are to be commended. But, even thought my family is now out of the loop regarding competing in KPro, as an outsider, I have to agree with RuthieRae (Sheryl). I realize that maybe we (out west) are swayed by the fact the we DO run all outboard classes (Stock, Mod, Pro, & J) at our local races...talk about a long day (but that is another subject). Our kids have MANY class options, and resilent bodies to race many classes, which is a definite advantage to USTS KPro racers only (I also know the APBA Super Membership has definately worked to the advantage of many of our members). I'm not taking sides here, but whenever you have a rule change, a group of individuals are going to be affected or not happy. Personally, with all due respect to you, your family (with many, many, many years and generations of experience on my family and most of the rest of us) and the USTS (if any of you have not attended a DePue Pro Nationals, you are missing a great event), I want and have to put my faith in the individuals we elect (Stock, Mod, or Pro commissioners) to make these decisions...you have to believe in the process. With that said, keep up the communicate. Being kind of a newbee, nine years of racing, I definitely don't have all of the answers and /or fact and don't claim too. I'm all eyes and ears when it comes to other peoples thoughts and history on boat racing subjects. Hang in their Amy, it sounds like the rule change will not affect you this year (2006), but the fact that you are looking out for others is to be commended.

Regarding yours thoughts Sheryl...look out as I'm sure Ashley (or Colin) will push you to run KPro sooner then you think. We have a pretty good set-up that Ashley could run at 2006 Pro Nationals?

Take care all
Jim

[RuthieRae]

Regarding yours thoughts Sheryl...look out as I'm sure Ashley (or Colin) will push you to run KPro sooner then you think. We have a pretty good set-up that Ashley could run at 2006 Pro Nationals?

Take care all
Jim[/QUOTE]


Yes, my dad and I were just chatting about all the classes she/they will be able to run in the next year....yikes! Ashley has already been asking about running more classes, no surprise there I guess! Thank goodness she isn't on this forum or you'd be getting a phone call I am sure!

[BratChild]

I had a discussion with both of my parents last night and on the way to school(here) this morning. In Florida, they are wanting to raise the age to get a drivers lisense to 17. I agree with that, even though there are some 17 year olds who I could say should not get there lisenses, but they have a very good idea with what they are doing: they are letting all of the people who have their permits still get their lisense at 16, because we are "already in the system". I think that is a great idea(especially because I have my permit already and I would rather not wait a whole nother year to get my lisense when I should be getting it in about 8 months). I think maybe that would be a good idea for KPRO, for the time being. I still believe that lowering the age isn't the best idea, but I think we should allow all the drivers who are registered in KPRO in the years of either 2005 or 2006, whichever you decide, be grandfathered in to running untill they are 18. My reasoning for this is that I know there were drivers who got new parts and things for the class, spending a lot of money, and now the board is saying that we will not be able to use it for that much longer; for me one year. I was just given a brand new boat and a brand new motor, new props, the whole deal, thanks to Jerry Davids, Gary Pond, Dave Bennett, Nic Thompson, and many more people I would love to thank. The problem is, we spent a LOT!! of money on getting all of this equipment, ready to get it all in tune for the rest of the remaining time(3 more years) that I could run the class. And now I come to find that I will only be able to use all of this brand new stuff for only one more year in the class I am all set up for: KPRO. And other people than myself have done the same thing. They got new equipment for the new season, spending large amounts of money, and now they can't use it for much longer. Yes, I will be running some stock classes with my new stuff, but my main class has always been KPRO. The drivers got new things, thinking that they would have a few more years in the class, and now (the board) is saying that we won't be able to. I guess that is part of what I find not fair. I think that the drivers registered in APBA as of last year should be grandfathered in until their 18th birthday. Could that be an option?
Another point I wanted to make was that the older drivers do teach the younger ones lots of things. The first time I ran AXSH was at Jesup, and I had Brent Dillard help me out a lot. He helped me at the start and helped push drivers away so I could go inside, even though I didn't catch that point at the time. The older KPRO drivers help the younger ones. Really in any class they do, but especially in AXSH, KPRO, and JSH. Brent helped me, and now I'm helping my sister Wendy, Travis when I race against him again, and anyone else who comes in. I love helping people, because helping them helps me.
I have more to put, but I'm in school and I have to do some work, but my final points won't be able to be posted until Monday when I am in this class for 4 hours due to some testing for 11th graders. So I will finish then. I will see the rest of you guys this weekend. But anything with my grandfathering in?
PS: Aren't older drivers supposed to win the nationals? Isn't that the point? Doesn't that mean that they are getting better and are learning how to drive better?

Amy

[hagerl8m]

Coming up in a boat racing family i learned a lot from watching the races. Instead of running around and playing game I help my father and bother with their race stuff, I hung out with the older kids. When my dad or brother or one of my older friends told me something i tried to listen. well ok I did play some too, but i learned from what i was told. When i was old enough to race I didn't get to learn much from my brother on the course, he was too big to continue racing classes like JSR and JSR, not to be confused with JR, JH, AXSR, AXSH, KPRO. But when i did get on the course i learned way more by following the older drivers, learning what they do when they pass me, the tricks they can pull on younger drivers and most of all respect. Yeah I ran JSR and JSH untill i was 16, i was small and competitive, but with the equipment i had i was 30 to 40 pounds over. After one race late in the season a parent of anther drive came up to me and thanked me for being a positive role model and a great source to use when trying to explain what to do on the course. When the parent had a problem telling his kid what they needed to do they resorted to, just follow chris. That was a great feeling hearing that. And when region 6 started running Jpro at stock races I also ran that class, again i was given the same thing. why raise the age of Jpro, ok i give up KPRO. Just some thoughts from someone who learned from the older racers in my class.

[Billie Burklund]

Just a thought, because this will affect both of my kids. If the kids have birthdays that fall in September ( which both of my kids do), their last year of eligibilty will be the year that they are 15 years old most of the year. That doesn't include birthdays in Oct, Nov, or Dec. I know most schools have cut off dates that they follow to be able to start school. In our state it's 5 by September 1st. I also liked Amy's idea of being Grandfathered in. I know some of the kids have put alot of money into this sport to only be able to use their equipment for a year. -Just a thought.

[BratChild]

Chris...I like what you said, and I can relate because I have had the same thing happen to me! And, for example, today in the jh races, it was me, my little sister, and betsy. Wendy and I were really the only legal j's, but i wanted to give her a run for her money. I have began to trust her on the straightaways, not quite sure in the turns, but I will lose a race to her anyday if I can teach her something. Like today in the race, yes, i did have to go half throttle through the turns so she could keep up with me cause she went really wide, but on the straightaways i would drift out and I got maybe within 5" of her. The first time she freaked out and didn't move but her eyes got real big, and I guess she understood what I was doing, and then just lived with it. In jh, yes I'm old, and yes I'm 33lbs overweight(that's official ) in the class but I run it so I can race against my sister, teach her a few things, and work on my starts. And I will do that with any new driver in the class. In KPRO and AXSH, I am a little bit more hesitant because those are my main classes, more KPRO than AXSH, but I've been doing pretty well sofar this season in AXH so I have made that one special. But in J, i am there to learn myself and also to teach what I know. And I watched so many racing movies and talked to older drivers and watched what they were doing when they passed me and were up front and I was in the back. When you're a rookie, the back isn't the worst place to be. You can see what the older drivers are doing and can learn from them. It is also good to watch from the shore cause then you know their techniques, like how I love the inside or how Wally will give up the first pin, but then nail the second and make you go over his wakes, and how Andy will spin out anywhere, turns or coming up for the start. Things like that you learn, and when you're out there with the older drivers, you respect them and learn from them. When you put a new kid out on the course in KPRO, I know from experiance that they are looking around at what the other drivers are doing and they will watch, learn, and sometimes follow. For my first race, like I mentioned, Brent Dillard really helped me out in AXSH. Yes, he is maybe 3 years older than me and has been racing since he was nine, but he took it upon himself to help me, guide me to the starts, and just show me different things I can do. There were birds at the lake today so here you go...the older drivers(sorry guys) are like momma birds trying to teach their babies how to fly. She takes them under her wing and teaches them how to get worms, how to stand, and eventually how to fly. And she protects them from snakes (bad/dangerous drivers). If the momma bird wasn't there to help the little birds, they could get hurt or not learn things the right way and end up in a bad situation. The momma bird helps the baby birds and when she thinks it's time to start backing off and see how they are doing, that's the real test; when the momma pushes the babies from the nest: she will be there at the bottom to catch them, but she is hoping they are ready to go on their own and use what she has taught them. I guess that was probably a pretty stupid annalogy, but what I'm really trying to say is, what does kpro mean? "kids-pro" last time i checked. and JSH? "junior stock hydro"...when you are young, you need help, and sometimes parents and people on the beach can't help with everything. That's what Brent, Andy Mackrell(another guy that helped me and has taught me a lot), myself, and many other kids are out there to do in these classes. Sometimes, so what if we win or lose. The sight of a rookie who we went out against and let them on the inside of the turn for the first pin and then took the second pin, spraying them down, teaching them what to do and what NOT to do, and then seeing them doing it the next day or the next year at a race, sometimes that feeling is bigger and better than winning. And no guys, (TOM AND CHRIS) I didn't have any sugar, I stole a mtn dew from wally maybe 5 hours ago, but then fell asleep and woke up about 5 minutes ago when we got home. Thank you very much... If this rule change is going to happen, then so be it, but for those of us who just spent a lot of money buying equipment for the next few seasons in the class, don't sell us short by not letting us run it. I talked to maybe 12 people this weekend and all but one agreed with me on this issue, at least grandfather us in, but actually by the end of the weekend that one person agreed also. Just something to think about...hey great racing this weekend by all!!! I know I had fun, so thanks to everyone who put the races on...you guys are the best!!!

amy