KPRO age

[BratChild]

Ok, first of all, I want to ask; why did the age for KPRO go from 18 to 16? I run KPRO and I love it, but with this new rule, this will be my last year, and only my third. The range of 11-16 is too short, only 5 years. But that's if you get in it when you're 11, and not all new drivers do. Especially if you have a new driver come in who has no knowledge of boat racing whatsoever, they just heard about it from a friend and want to do it. And they are 15 years old. That means they race 1 year of kpro and then have to move up to (speaking for USTS) 125? I don't think that is enough time for a new driver to experiance racing and get to know a lot about it before going up against some real pros, world champions and national champions, and yet they don't really know what they'er doing. I thought 18 was a good age, because by then you have had your drivers lisence for maybe 2 years and driving comes naturally in a way because you have done it. 16 doesn't really let drivers experiance driving and racing. I think the kpro age should stay the same so younger and new drivers get more and better experiance in a class where everyone is learning, not where you're learning and everyone else knows what they're doing. What was the purpose of the rule to start with?

amy

[Kristi Ellison]

This change was so younger drivers get experience without much older and more experienced drivers coming in and using their experience to disadvantage the younger drivers.
KPH is "kids pro hydro" and it needs to be for kids and younger beginers. It was never intended for kids who run all the stock classes and 125, those kids are not beginers.
If an older kid wants to move up to 125 they do not need to set up their equipment initially to compete with the fastest boats out there. There is such a thing as a conservative set up, ask your cousin Jason that is how he got his driving experience. By the time you are 17 it is time to move on. By the time you finish out your 16th year season you are almost 17 and that is plenty old enough.

The rule change is not to disadvantage anyone but to keep true to the intent of the class.

[DougMc]

Forget KPRO and 125. You need to run OSY.

[joelbrown]

i turned 16 in august does that mean i cant run it this year?

[benf27]

i think the rule change is stupid!!! if you don't want experienced drivers then set a number of years that you can run kpro. like 4 years. or make it so that kpro is the only class that you can drive! if you run osy or any other class than your out of kpro. this rule change sounds like something the stock commission would do. its just not safe! would anybody want to race a 125 or 250 against a 16 year old kid that has never been in a race boat. i think not!

Nic Thompson

[Kristi Ellison]

Yes Joel you can run the rule does not go into effect until next year. Nic thanks for your input.

[wdlong1226]

my two cents

in that case axsh and axsr shouln,d have anyone over a certain age it is suppose to be a stepping stone older drivers have too much of a ADVANTAGE. IT,S NOT FAIR TO THE KIDS

[Billie Burklund]

I agree with Nic, if you want to run another class other than KPro then you should not be able run KPro any longer. I don't think that it has been a problem with the Kids from the USTS, I think it has been a problem at nationals with older kids. I also know that it didn't matter last year, because a new driver (Amy) came in and showed some from the west coast that age and experience don't always have to be the norm to win, great/SAFE driving does. I think the greatest concern should be, if we don't give kids the chance to learn at age 16 to drive in a good safe class then this sport may die. Brennen started at age 11, but he was one of the lucky ones. Most of the kids start at 14. That would only give them 2 years of on the water time, which amounts to 14 races maybe. In the state of Illinois, kids have to have 20 hours of driving time with their parents before they can even get their drivers license. We want to send them out in fast race boats with very little experience/boat time as far as I'm concerned. Not all kids are as talented as Brandon.

[Kristi Ellison]

Billie

With respect to your and Nic's remarks.

The age has only been effectively lowered by 1 year. You may finish the season in which you turn 16(This will hopefully prevent what happened to Erin) so most of the kids will be close to 17 before they move on or by the time the next season starts.

Please remember the starting age for 125 is 14 and to date no one has had a problem with that age that I am aware of. We have had kids racing 125 at the age of 14. There may also be some beginners who are too big at the age of 16 to run KPH. Michael is a good example...he ran KPH for 2 years and got too big to be competitive so he went to 125 R at the age of 14 and he is doing a good job.

My last comment is that in the past we had a "true novice class" it was Formula 350. The rule was 4 years or age 18 the starting age was 14, if I recall correctly they ran about 60mph. It was very difficult almost impossible to enforce the part of the rule that stated you could not run any other classes, especially if people ran in other catagories such as 20ssH.

I think before everyone decompensates we need to see if the rule change makes good on its intentions. I think it will. If not we can always go back and revisit/revise.

Sincerely
Kristi

[Billie Burklund]

Kristi
I fully understand what you are saying so please don't get me wrong in my comments. By 16 Brennen will be much to large for KPro himself, but he was lucky and was able to start racing at 11 years old. He wants to race 125R I'm personally not ready for him to be going up against Bryan and some of the other big guys. Your right Michael was ready to move up, he proved that by winning high point in KPro.
Billie

[Kristi Ellison]

Billie

I fully understand your concerns as well as everyone else's and I don't take you wrong. I just want the rule to be clear that when you turn 16 you are not gone. I am aware that the kids birthday does factor in but we had to have an easy to determine cut-off. I feel very strongly that this needs to stay a "kids" class. There were quite a few "grown kids" over the past years, taking advantage of the age limit to whoop the snot out of the kids like you pointed out in your original post.

Remember Bryan was a beginner as well as the other guys and they will school them as they look out for them it is how we all learned.

On a side note...I am gald you are feeling better and I understand that you won't make it to Inverness we will miss you guys.

Kristi

[Nilsen Racing]

I don't believe the age has really changed or affected many, if any K-Pro racers? The rule basically cleans things up and allows an individual to complete the racing season...Nov-Oct...in K-Pro. A PRO commissioner can correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand it, if you are 17 years of age on Nov 1st you can complete the season (thru Oct) in K-Pro. In the past, you were allowed to race up until your 18th birthday, then that was it, you were done in K-Pro. I thought the same as some of you that this reduced the age, but after taking a close look at it, we would not be affected by the change. My son Jonathan, who turns 18 in a few weeks is to old for K-Pro this year, but last year under the old or new rule would still have been eligible to race because he was 16 on Nov. 1, 2004. Does this help?

BUT, you did kind of got my attention when comments about, older west coast racers, and safe racing, were also brought up. Let me just state my thoughts and my thoughts only having two sons who did pretty well winning five of the last six J-Pro/K-Pro nationals. First, older doesn't neccesary mean better. It has to do with experience, experience, experience, and then being light. Six years ago my older son at age 15, first won J-Pro nationals. Experience? He was one of the fastest, but not THE fastest setup. What I think set him apart was that he had 2 years experience, running a full schedule in Region 10 in not only J-Pro against kids his own age but also running ASH, FAH, ASR, & FAR with up to 50 lbs. of lead in his boat against older competitors. This was after 2 years in JH and JR. Through this experience he learned how to time a start and drive under different racing conditions. His younger brother also followed the same learning curve.
Safety. Again you may disagree with me, but our approach at nationals was always, have the mind set that you were going to be running 4 heats, not 3 (at least one restart), because one of the (not younger but) less experienced racers was going to go on their head. Just my observation, but it seemed like the most accidents at Pro nationals are in OSY and K-Pro. Why? I won't get into OSY (my sons are both running this class now also) as their setups are so evenly matched, but in K-Pro it seems like (my observation only) a number of these racers are pulling out their restrictor plates for the first or second time (not experienced at this speed in close competition) and are driving over their heads. I don't have an answer to solving this and don't want to reduce the K-Pro field at nationals or scare anyone off, but I would hope parents are putting their kids first when they send them out to compete in K-Pro at the Pro Nationals. "Out West", it has been a great class for heavier under 14 years old kids...to big for J and to young for A...and for lighter 14 to 17 (up to 18) year old kids.

Just my two cents. Thanks for your time.
Jim

[Kristi Ellison]

Jim

You almost got it right...if you turn 16 on or after Nov 1 st you can finish that season.

Kristi

[Nilsen Racing]

Thanks Kristi, I stand corrected. I'm not very good sometimes (multi-tasking) I this case thinking and writting at the same time. I do want to add that both Joel Brown and Amy are very good young racers, just like your boys, and have a bright future in boat racing.

Look forward to see you at DePue again this summer.
Jim

[BratChild]

The change does effect me. I think (or so I have heard) that the biggest reason for the rule change was that certain drivers were running kpro and other pro classes and getting into the hall of Champions, and that was unfair. I agree with that to the fullest extent, but I don't see a reason to punish the kPRO drivers who are still getting experiance. Personally, I am not ready for 125 or any other class. I am still learning the ins and outs of racing, and the step up to 125 wouldn't be an option for me at this time. And I know of a few other drivers who are the same way.
Take for example when I ran JSH for 2 years, and still this year, mostly because of Wendy. I am 15, running with 9 year olds. Seems kind of unfair, right? Not really, especially when you're about 30lbs overweight and the younger ones are adding 30lbs of lead to meet the weight requirements. I mean the only reason I ran it for 2 years and still this year is to get the feel of the boat. In the new JerryRig(flyer) I have been told that it is the closest boat with the OMCA motor that feels like a higher class, such as 125. I run it so I get more boat time and when I am ready to step up to 125, I will be ready. As the rule stands right now, next year I will not be running any PRO classes. I will not run a class I am not ready to run. I could have run ASH last year, but I wasn't ready. This may sound childish or weak, but when you're ready to go faster and be in a class with more experianced, national and world champion drivers, you will know when you're ready. And I am not ready. I love the USTS, it is a great organization and very organized. I would not like to drop out because I'm not ready to go to a class with drivers of expertiece(sp?). I do believe there are other options that would allow younger drivers to stay in KPRO, but not upset anyone else.

1) No driver who runs KPRO will be allowed to run any other PRO class. This would not allow KPRO drivers to get into the Hall of Champions by means of running KPRO and another class. This would also keep the drivers who want/need more experiance with drivers of their own age and knowledge at the same level. When the drivers are ready to step up, they will be done with KPRO and go on to another class.
2) If a driver runs KPRO and another class, the points for KPRO will not be elidgable to go towards the Hall of Champions This would be another option for those who want to run another PRO class other than KPRO but HOC would not be an option for these drivers. Stepping up but staying in KPRO may be for some drivers a test for themselves to see if they're ready, and if they feel they are not, then they have something to fall back to.
3) The points for KPRO can not go towards Hall of Champions, even if it is the only class the driver runs. KPRO is supposed to be a learning class, not really a class for major points. Maybe they should make a special "Junior Hall of Champions" or something for the KPRO points to go towards that. The whole KPRO experiance is to gain knowledge of racing and learn they ways of the boat and rules. Maybe points for HOC should not be allowed.

I really do not see a reason to make the KPRO max age 16. Say a driver gets their friend into racing, and they start, but they are 16. They can't run KPRO, but they don't want to run 125 or OSY or 250 because they require prior knowledge to racing, and the friend does not have that. What are they going to do? Well, one of two options: Either join stock where they are able to run AXSH, ASH, etc. and will be able to run with other rookie and novice drivers like themselves, or they will not race all together. That is not what we want. If a driver gets an 18 year old friend involved in racing, they at least have prior experiance to driving. They have had their lisence for maybe 2 years and know the laws of the road; some that come over to racing. Moving the KPRO age to 16 will only mean a loss of younger drivers and such. Don't punish us; the ones who aren't ready to step up to 125 and have no other options(except run just stock or drop out all together). We want more people to come into racing PRO, and doint this will only push them away.

Amy