Please, Mr. Sorc Commissioner......

[csh12M]

I will tell you what it hurt.....the HOT ROD!!

Hey Ryan,

I will tell you what was hurt.....Daryl Ludwig quit the class and the Hot Rod was effectivley eliminated from 25SSR. Now you may say who cares he is one guy, but as I keep stating you kill the Hot Rod in a class and you hurt Outboard Racing LLC chances of selling motors in a class. Daryl was in effect providing free marketing for the Hot Rod. He was showing people that it could compete and win in 25SSR. Racing Outboards LLC has pumped over $100,000 into outboard racing this year. The OMC lower units that everyone was crying for cost over $30,000 to complete and to date we have sold 6. Now you want to kill the Hot Rod in 25 all together....you might as well spit in Ron's face. What we should do in 25SSR is put the restrictor back in and make the Yamatos run at a 1' 3/8 height restriction or a bigger restrictor, or whatever to bring the Yamatos back to the pack. Instead you killed the Hot Rod and tried to bring the Merc. up to the Yamato which failed. Now what do we do with 25SSR, heck I know what we do we call it C2R because that is exactly what it is. Look at Pater's 25SSR times compared to the CSR times!

This is why the people racing the class can not set the direction for Stock Outboard they make rationalizations and decisions based on short term class needs and not long term vaibility or growth for the sport. What are we going to race in 5-10 years if Racing Outboards LLC folds......four strokes.....that is not a future I want to be a part of.

[csh12M]

Wrong

I agree with Ryan, Grab the short term gain now. adjust when and if the hotrod is out and if warrented. The drivers have spoken. the possible damage to the hotrod is mute at this point. I think my 20 cube would have been quite competitve.
Steve

Steve you are wrong! The damage to the Hot Rod is the only point that is valid. The drivers 25 drivers whining is the point that should be mute! Racing Outboard LLC is the only compnay willing to try and build new racing two strokes for us to race. This is a once in a lifetime oppourtunity, yet you treat is as if it comes around every day. You know nothing get adjusted after the fact.....and the reason, because the drivers have spoken.

I will also say I think you are wrong your 20ci would not be competitive if they pull the restrictor.

[Philip DiFebo JR.]

Someone get 12m a drink & a happy ending !!!!

[hagerl8m]

maybe

i don't think Daryl quit when they pulled the restrictor, maybe it was the large boats he had to run against. This class is something we haven't really worked with before, three engines one class. its really a good idea. just needs some fine tuning. Sure right now it seems like the SORC is making the class better, but lets get some hot rods in there and have a compatition board there to change the rules as needed. Make it fair for everyone. i say thanks to Racing Outboard LLC for keeping the motor i've grown to love around and helping keep my sport going. But lets not just do away with the 25 merc, those guys are getting parts too, didn't the SORC spend a lot of cash too making the new tower? I think this year you'll see some changes that will help both the merc and the hot rod.

One last question, wouldn't it be easier to put the restrictor back into the merc and then put one into the Yamatos and then all three motors will be close?

[jsilvestri]

Everyone has made valid points for both short term and long term growth. What has to be decided is which one is which is more important, short term or long term growth. Or possibly, try to solve both the short term and long term needs/wants and goals.

Back to my origional question a few posts back. Dean, would the new "B" Hot Rod be a better fit in the 20ssH class since the boats are similar? If so, it would provide a motor for the future of 20ssH as the Yamato 80 becomes obsolete.

[Abbott Racing]

Your question about the 20SSH is interesting Joe, back in 1979/80 when I got one of the new Rice Burners as they referred to back then. They were supposed to be the new motor to inject life into the "B" class.A complete 20SS motor in the crate with steering bar and prop was $450.00 cdn. At that time we ran them on "B" boats or small "C" boats. I would be curious to see how the 20SS and the 20ci hotrod would do against one another. Dean, you run both classes what are your thoughts......

Don't mean to side track the 25SS issue just more curiosity than anything else.

[dholt]

Long Term vs. Short Term

I'll present some stats...then sign off on this subject.

For one, Ryan, I never said anything was "hurt" by pulling the restrictor in 25R. If it got you back into the class, great. Had you ever run the class with your restricted Yamato prior to running your Merc in 2005?

My point was that the onslaught of participation that a few 25R Merc guys predicted didn't happen. I count 12 25R drivers using Mercs in 2005. 72 total boats. Some of these guys (J Michael and Perman) may even using Yamatos. Kelly did run a Merc at Dayton..so I'll count him.

Brinkman 3 races
J Michael 15 races
Perman 14 races
Burdick 6
Affholter 7
Hearn 2
Klein 1
Rhodes 1
Brewster 1
Morrical 1
JW Myers 3
Purzycki 2

The LONG TERM success just isn't in the cards. Nor is the restricted Yamato truly "success" for the class, as I stated in my previous email.

Wouldn't a new guy rather go buy a new motor, ready to race from a manufacturer..than search ebay or whatever to find an engine? New equipment equates to increased participation. History backs this up. Dean has the stats from the 80's to prove it. No one is saying get rid of the engine...just look toward what is best for the future, not next season.

The same argument can be stated for other classes in trouble.

25H participation since 1997:
25, 27, 23, 25, 25, 34, 38, 42, 36.

And of those 36 drivers in 2005, only 4 ran 10 or more races. Only 8 drivers ran 8 or more races.

Started to go up last few years, then went down in 2005. Basically flat. So why kill any chance at growth (adding 20ci Hot Rod) by pulling the restrictor?


Basic question. Which road leads to long term growth?

[csh12M]

The rest of the story....

You are right Phillip I do need a drink, and you and your brother need to get you 20c.i. out their in the 25SSH. I know you guys have a basement full.

Chris Hagrel you are right on the money, put the restrictor back in the 25SSR and put a bigger one in the Yamato, problem solved!!

Joe, sorry I forgot to answer you question. I do not think they are compatible, but I have wanted to try it. The boat sizes would be right on the money, however my speeds are around 68.5/69.5. with the 20c.i. The best I have seen in my 20SSH is about 63.8 (although my 20 is not top notch). I think the top notch 20SSH are going about 65.5. So I would need to knock off about 3-4mph. Also the 20c.i. has incredible punch, that is the only way I can stay with the 25SSH which are going 72. The 80 punch is pretty gutless I have thought about trying to put the 15 carb on the 20ci, but I have been told that will not slow it down. I am going to try that though and see.

[Steve Johnson]

Deano Baby

Your co is making engines for how many classes? plus the MOD OPTION?
pulling the restricter in one of them ,. will kill Racing outboards LLC? No one including me wants that, Mr.silly
I've been known to a little dramatic myself ,but really? this is a MINOR tweek compared to what was pulled in the D class. dreaming of the future is great fellas, But live in the NOW. I think revived interest in the class with the merc is an acceptable outcome. Once them Hotrods hit the market think about slowing them down again. If needed. Heck maybe all that new design work will have made this motor faster/ slower. We won't know until you get them on the market. either way the current drivers are all you have TODAY to be concerned with. Dean, I'll send you a prop. mine went 73
Dana, Pull the Pro category participation figures will ya. Pro is just full of engines you can buy off the shelf.
Have a great and productive meeting fellas.

[kws]

the fact that Someone is trying to build US RACERS a NEW motor can never be a mute point in my mind. Some serious thought needs to be put into any changes that even MIGHT reduce the viability of any new motors.
if option 1 brings about conditions that allow more antique motors to run at the expense of a potential new motor
then lets find an option 2 that lets more old motors run but leaves as much room for a new motor as possible.
otherwise this sport is running as fast as it can to a point where only wealthy collectors can afford the equipment to run and my money says they wont risk their investment for something as silly as running around in circles
well thats my 2 cents worth have a great day all

[kws]

pretty good point about now and later Steve


in my mind having this dialog with people from all of north america is probably one of the best things to happen to this sport in a long time.the exchange of thoughts and ideas in this format is priceless

[csh12M]

Ok Ok, I have had two calls from racer friends telling me to calm down. I am not quite as fired up as it seems from my posts. Steve I see your point I just think it is short term thinking. Outbaord Racing LLC is going to need every class it can get to every turn into a "real" sustainable company. We want to offer engines to all two cyclinder class up to the Yamatos within the next 2-5 years. If I can not keep a restricotor out of a 25SSH now that has had it in for 17 years what makes you think we will be able to slow classes down in the future. The bummer to me also is these motors have parity now.....as well as any other motor we have tried to get parity with, the Merc. and the Hot Rod can race against each other. Give it at least another year and see if we get any more Hot Rods out of the basement. I was working on building another and interested in yours to help get it going again in Region 6. Now we add a few more to the water....

If they pull it they pull it.....I just think it is short term.

BTW I think that 73 you put up was with a Keller.....you put up a 73 with a 20ci Hot Rod with my GPS while you are at a race and I will but you a case a beer every race we are at for the next 5 years!! What do you guys drink up their Hamms....

[Steve Johnson]

Schmidt

Any free Beer will do.
I just might bring a 20 cube to alex. my GREAT prop went to Roberson. You might want to give him a call. It was a Keller meter. however happy it might have been ,wins don't lie. Remember there are many a Player in the SO game, seaway, Bass, Yamato guys and Dave Scott and hotrod they all have a place in our future, And no ONE is the only answer. these chat rooms tend to ramp up emotions far worse than face to face discussion. words alone tend to look harsh, humor is often overlooked or missed.


That being said I haven't offended everyone yet, so I 'm going back to work on my megaphones for My Tahatsu

[csh12M]

Agreed

I agree with that.....

Schmidt, I have never tried that, not sure how easy that will be to aquire. Although I am not to worried, bring that 20ci to Alex. that will be two of us with the Hot Rod!! I know yours was fast as hell in the day, I just think it was 69MPH fast, not the 72/73 that Z is going in his 25SSH.

Hope all is well with the family and the Tohatsau.....

Later,
12M

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Pretty Fast Hot Rods

Hey guys there's some pretty fast NBRA hot rods that call that lake there home water, bring 'em on.
Richard F.