Reconsider your BSR rules...

[Andrew 4CE]

Valid points Jim, but for every accident where a side fin did less damage I"m sure, myself included, can point out an accident where the side fin caused more damge... side fin hooked in front of me this year and tore the decking and right side of my boat off. so it's give and take... no side (no pun intended) will win the safety argument.

As far as helping it grow and allowing the side fins in, my question is a simple one:

Is there any exisiting class of boat out there that has a side fin and could be used competitively for BSR?

I don't believe there is, but I could be proved wrong. So if a person has to buy/build a new boat, then why not a boat that fits the existing class rules. I'm sure there are builders out there who have the knowledge.

I didn't realize that there are many people out ther who have not even seen roll up boats. But think of the equal playing field you would have along the whole west coast if they were all learning a new style of driving. New racer and veteran would be more equal. Might take a little while to get competitive on a national level. But that's going to happen with a motor you people haven't seen in years too regardless of hull. By the time the motor is figured out, the driver will be well on the way to figuring it out too.

Just thoughts...

Great thoughts, opinions, suggestions, etc. regarding the BSR class...roll-up verse flat turn, only real runabout class left, safety, to name a few. Sorry, I just had to ask (BSR?) since many of the racers west of the Mississippi have never seen a BSR or BSH race in competition. My family has had the opportunity over the last six years to attend the Stock Nationals at Wakefield and Whitney Point, so I guess you could say we are in the minority.

So where am I going here? I guess I'm looking at the growth of the B stock class in general, especially west of the Mississippi, and specifically in Region 10 where the basic philosophy is "if you brung it, we run it". Add to this the fact that Region 10 (Seattle Outboard Association) is hosting the 2007 Stock Nationals...what a great place to showcase and promote the B class to the west. With the Selweitch (sp) group, including Dean, Ed and others building a new Hot Rod Outboard Motor, which will hopefully be ready by the 2007 Nationals (so we have a new B motor). What about easy accessibility to boats? Hydro's shouldn't be a problem, but runabouts? I'm not taking sides here, but if you are interested in building the class out west, I think you need to seriously consider that most of our runabout drivers race flat turners...Sorenson's or Zorkin's. Sure safety is always an issue, but I don't know if a side fin or a bottom fin makes that much of a difference safety wise. I'm sure we all have our thoughts on this and can show exceptions. My exception is on page 15 of the July 2005 Propeller Magazine. My son in a side fin Sorenson, launching...like going off a water ski jump...over another ASR that hooked in front of him. The side fin probably did less damage to the other boat then if it had a bottom fin (just my thoughts).

Again, I'm not taking one side or the other here. I'm a traditionalist at heart. I just ask that you keep an open mind when considering (true) growth of the BSR class in particular, but also the B stock class in general and us racers out west.

Jim

[race4kaos]

wow...

You BSR guys are certainly diehards. It's apparent the current drivers of the class are more interested in 'tradition' and would feel 'condemned' if it were any other way. Huh... 'die hard'. Ironic word selection...

Thank you Mr. Nilsen for making my point. But as stated very clearly in this thread, they are not interested in 'different' new boats, drivers, and their class west of MN.

Hot Rod is making progress as you will see at the National Meeting. It's almost a shame they are investing so much into a class that has less interested in new people and growth than tradition.

Dean, better start working on restrictors, etc. BSR is all set !

[18W]

So does growth of the class reqire sticking it to those who have supported it through the past? Why in order for growth, does the class have to be run on a side finned boat? Just because there is an over abundance of them in one area of the country?

The class is nonexistant at this point nor has been for the past 10 or more years in that area. I agree, there is potential. But do you put the members of the current class out to pasture because of potential?

There still is questions pending about the Hot Rod. I can not go to the meeting, so I will miss the presentation. Hopefully someone will update those of us who are not there on the current status of Hot Rod. I have seen a few updates from Ron here in the past, and hope he will post further in the future.

Can we work the issues that will arise with the current class before we try to "grow"? It would be a hard pill to swallow to tell a CURRENT member of BSR that they need a new motor and boat. I agree with Jesse. The day the hydros are allowed back in BSR is they day I no longer race the class.

[race4kaos]

I'm confused...

Did anyone ever say YOU HAVE TO SWITCH TO A SIDE FIN BOAT ?!? NO !!!!

I think Anderson is competitive in ASR, just like Bowman and Burdick in CSR.

So I suspect your sacred BSR wouldn't change locally at all. But maybe [read: hopefully] in the upcoming years a few BSR's might pop up from WA, OR, CA, FL, NC... to compete with you current roll-up experts. But I suspect if you make them roll it up, they will either not be as safe as you veterans, or worse, not even be interested from the beginning and stick with what they know... Zorkins, Dawes, and Sorensons. Is that really helping you guys?

Is Ponch paying you guys? Are you already convinced you can't beat them? Are you saying J.Michael, Rich Runne, Gary Lewis aren't 'real men' because they don't roll it up (ok, scractch Gary... )? Why do you feel like this would be 'sticking it to you'?

You guys seem to really love your BSR. I'd just like to see more - from all over and of all shapes and sizes. Too bad you don't spend more of this time and passion wrenching and testing... I'd also like to see someone beat Ed.

Big picture guys...

[mike ross]

Kevin send me something to have put on the agenda. Let the commision vote on what they think is best for SO. I understand both sides and they both have good points. The growth thing is a big deal. With the new motors right around the corner I think we owe it to Ron to make every possible oppertunity to have his motor on any king of boat roll up or turn fin version. If they want to make the coarse different this would make one version better than the other. We saw that at Dayton this year. Brinkmans roll up gaining ground in a tight turn over the turn fin boats. Mike

[nightmoves]

Everybody makes a point in this matter but I think the big picture is being overlooked - there are two different designs in stock racing, runabouts and hydroplanes. I know that everyone is trying to go faster and feel more comfortable in what they drive but why does it come down to changing one of the designs to accomodate the other.
A runabout in its true form doesnt have a side fin with an extra wide bottom that is flat without a V in it, yet people have been making these recently. They dont resemble a runabout accept for the single pointed nose, lack of sponsons and the absence of air traps, runabouts were designed for rough water and turning right or left which you can only do in a runabout.
Im feeling that most people havnt tried to roll up a runabout and look at it with a sense of fear because they would have to move around in the boat to make it perform.
Learning to drive a runabout will give you a tremendous skill ability that you cant get from a "flat turner". Just ask some of the greats such Rich Runne, Andy Anderson, Craig Bowman and Billy Allen.
Just my opinion.............

[18W]

"Too bad you don't spend more of this time and passion wrenching and testing"

Hard to wrench without crankshafts and rods. Motors don't run without them. And lakes are frozen up here untill well into May.

I am not saying I don't want the class to grow!!! I do. But with I hear is a basically new motor arriving sometime, why not let the current class have a chance the way it is with the addition of the new motor. Let's see where the new motor falls before changing this,that and the next thing. Except for Ed winning. I too would like to see someone else win.

[hagerl8m]

bsr

I agree with Dave on this and most of the current BSR drivers, why are we fixing something that isn't broken. I recall at the national meeting that BSR was a growing class and had seen 7 new drives, at raced at least twice in a year, over the past two years. Isn't that growth? I also understand what your Kevin, but i don't think you need to allow side fins to ensure class growth. I race BSR because the class is fun and there are no side fins, you want side fins, there goes 4 boats out of the class, and you just lost two of your Hot Rod engines builds. Does that really help the class? Don has been racing a form of B class since he started, he lied about his age just so he could get into one. We have a lot of stuff we could work on instead, but maybe our love of the class is what keeps him racing it along with me, amanda, and jim. So before we go and change everything, lets see the motor run, actully lets see the parts, since i've got numbers of stuff laying around i need parts to build, and could posssible sell, to quote, built the class.

christopher

[race4kaos]

Finally !!

Davey, we agree !! Someone should win besides ED.
Write that up as a rule and only let the BSR drivers vote on it.

Mikey, I'm not writing this up - it doesn't really effect me. I'm just seeing if others see the big picture. Nilsen, Joey, Pater, and you do... maybe others. But many of my friends fall into this diehard BSR group. I'll try to patch things up and keep them as friends. But the commisison ought to think about this in the future once HR's are available.

Nightmoves, I don't think any of the guys arguing to open up the rules are opposed to roll ups. In fact they have all raced them - with some success. I bet you'd never guess who won high points in KG Mod R in '86 and BMR in '96 rolling it up.

I'm done. Time to think of another way to kill time until Stag Weekend and testing 45's in the spring.

[Bob Dunlap]

Let's get real, we can make this work. I read in an earlier post someone said we need change. Look at stock outboard racing, it is definitely a dying sport, steadily declining. Do we want to help this or just sit back and run our classes as they are and watch it die! We would like to run BSR in region 5 just like region 10 would. In region 5 we have 6 B runabouts, I can't call them BSR because most of them have side fins. We have never had a BSR race in our regular program. We would like to, but like me I have a side fin boat and 2 BS motors and I don't plan to get another boat, so we just let them sit, especially since AMR has kind of dried up. I don't have any problem with a rollup boat, my first boat was an Austin rollup and I can assure you that in a flat turning AMR or CSR if you're going to be fast you move around. Why don't we consider adding 15 or 20 pounds to the side fin boats. I agree with some of the other post the SORC needs to look at this for the future of Stock outboard racing not just the guys currently running BSR. As it is now I have the equipment to run but I can't vote on a change and other racer who would like to run this class can't vote for a change. I know we can make this work, maybe like in the DS class we could have a parity committee. There is a solution that can be found if we try hard enough.

[hagerl8m]

What

What, adding 20 pounds to the sid fins boats is unsafe, try turning it then. BSR drivers don't seem to like that high rostertail thaat gets thrown off of them, and second the first time one tries to take the inside there is a giant chain reaction. Does anyone remember 95 when Tommy Speding took the inside and all the BSR on the outside had holes in them, dad won with the entire right side of the boat gone. Caused by a driver in a side fin boat with too much lead in it. I asked around, did my homework, does anyone know how hard it is to hold an BSR on the pins with a side fin? If you want to just add weight, maybe the rule should be you must run on the outside of everyone.
sorry for the sarcaism
christopher

[Andrew 4CE]

Nightmoves... good words!

We are only one class away from having side fins, wide flat bottoms and hydro style cockpits in all classes. After BSR is changed I vote for adding air traps... Think of the class growth!! Anyone with a BSH could run BSR too! And vice versa! We could double our numbers! Make it so.

[CSR4C]

Jim Nilsen,
BSRs showed up with a full field at the 2003 nationals at Copperoplis. That class put on the best race of the nationals. A lot of lead changing and great action.
Darrell

[csh2z]

I seriously doubt the commission would deal with this issue at this years meeting. We are not of the mindset that any change is needed in BSR at this time. Maybe if someone could collect some data during the 2006 season, we could discuss this on an intellectual level. This is one of those issues which stir up a lot of emotion.John Runne 2-Z

[22W]

From the fat guy...

Are you kidding me? Mess with the best class in all of stock outboard??? If it wasn't for MY dimensions, this would be my class. Obviously I have always been a strong supporter of rolling up a runabout. Heck, I am so stubborn I am still running one in CSR and 25SSR. If you want to drive a hydro, drive a hydro. If you live out west, have Frank build you a roll up boat. I hear that he is pretty talented and can probably figure out how to narrow the bottom a little bit and glue on some foam. If you let those wide load spray throwing skid turning things in, you will lose more drivers than new engines will bring in.