Reconsider your BSR rules...

[charlie smith]

Dance with the one that brung ya!

In August of 2003 at the TOPO Marathon Nationals I bought a Racecraft runabout and an omc from George Jenkins for my son Charlie. Our plan was to run in J. the following year. He tested the boat unrestricted,( I didn't have a plate), at speeds up to 59 mph.,and learned how to roll up a boat. Two years later he still likes to roll up and is very competive. He loves hydros too but has learned handle both.Last year at the Marathon Nationals we had more J. drivers than both A&B classes. All of these young racers had to roll up to the left and right on a narrow river over a 12 mile course each day. I feel , in the future, there will be enough young blood to keep the B. class going in it's current form. And maybe then and only then, Don Hagerl might retire! (Thank's to all of the Hagerl's for all of your help and advice.) Steve Smith.

[pruett56m]

i agree

me being one of the J drivers Mr. Smith is talking about^^ i agree with him. Also I do not agreee With the peaple sayin the hydrobout is safer. I belive the spray the cause blinds the driver folowing. also many more acident are involving turn fin bout weather its a fin breakin off or it suddenly grabbing tossin the driver out.But hey thats just my experiances. Dont hate me please also i do not plan on racing much of A due to the fact i like the roll over boat more and i htink the turn fin boats are favored more with the turn pins, so i plan on jumping to B class so its all fair for everyone.

[53M]

B runabout

Most people don't remember, but I was once a roll up driver. Took 2nd in the '86 nationals and believe I was the only one in the top 5 with a roll up that year. I raced roll up C until mid 90s and felt that in many cases I had an advantage. I still think that in most cases it is a wash on to which boat is the best. When I had both the old Broc (which Ryan Burdick still runs) and my old sor --- the broc was actually a couple tenths faster down the straights. I believe the roll ups are more fun to drive but the side fins are more forgiving and better in the turns IF YOU ARE ON THE OUTSIDE; if you are on the inside, an experienced driver with a roll up is not at a disadvantage. I run the side fin now because they are easier to drive, I am not as tired when I get out of the boat and thus I can still run 3 more classes after I get out of the boat. If I ran a roll up I would have to cut my classes down to 2.

Now with all the BS said, why wouldn't we want to open the class up to other boats and drivers, especially lightweight drivers who want to go a little faster than A and feel some actual acceleration, get a good runabout ride and be able to run the boat they want. Look at the A class --- both boats are equally competitive. We need a lightweight class for all dricers because we are currently trying to eliminate the light drivers from the 25SSr class so lets give them back the B class.

[18W]

i said for the betterment of SO, not the current class drivers.

Does this guarantee that SO will grow if we condemn the current BSR drivers? I think I am missing something here.

[hagerl8m]

Traditions

Does anyone remember tradition or loyalty? Yes I know that Johnny Damon is now a Yankee and Daren Sharper is a Viking. But does that mean that boat races can’t remember were we came from. One of the major reasons I believe the BSR drivers passed the roll up rule to keep at least one of its classes the way racing began. Hey I agree if its for the betterment of the sport sure, change it, but I don’t believe that allowing side fins in is going to make the class grow. How come no one is asking where the Hot Rod a motor is? Would that be in the best interest of the sport, by getting rid of old equipment. As a current BSR driver I’m not going to sit here and let the class I love be changed. Davey is right why is it the BSR drivers that are condemned. To this day there are retired drivers that say that BSR is the best ride in boat racing. So before you go off changing try it, you might just like it.

Christopher,
Green Boat, Yellow Number 8

[Jim]

[QUOTE=race4kaos]... i'll drop it. you B'classic'SR guys can race amongst yourselves. screw class growth, and even more Hot Rod potential. Class growth potential for any SO class would be kewl, but if not.... screw you guys, I'm going home

[racer4s]

Kudos K. Ladd for stirring up the pot. Been terribly quiet around here for months.

Been reading from the top and had some thoughts.

From '90 till the year the rule was inacted ('99)...I recall only 2 side fin BSR's in competition. The venerable 107-M and Steven Dawe had one in Hinton in '93 or '95. So...didn't really seem to be very popular even when legal.

In '98 I tested our first two Z Craft ASR boats with the Hot Rod. It was a rocket. A fat 1 mph faster on top end and certainly tons better punch than the Racecraft. Trouble was, I blew it over the second heat I ran it. It was a handful in choppy, regular race water. So, the argument that hoardes of side fin ASR boats are waiting for a Hot Rod on the transom is off base. No way, no how are most of the current, light as a feather, wide as hell ASR boats safe enough for 59 mph.

So...even though I had a potential big time edge..I still voted against side fin BSR because of exactly what Ed previously stated.

Also, while Ed did have an impressive winning record with his bathtub ASR...the wide bottom, flat turners were around well before '97.

D. Carl won with the Sorensen in '93...and was by far the fastest in '94 but blew the start in heat two. By the way, that Sorensen was built in '87.

Since 1990, nine ASR National Champs have won in flat turners...seven rolling them up.

The point about drivers voting on issues concerning their class is a good one. It happens all the time. Weight rules, etc...are left of up to drivers of the class. Guess this issue fell into same bin.

Gotta go....my Bass 'D' needs some dyno work this afternoon.

D.

Best boat race I ever witnessed was watching Stover Hire(rollup w/toilet bowl 20H) and Paul Kalb(flat turner w/Hot Rod & no side fin I think) battle at the '62 NOA semi pro (mod) BU Championships in Creve Ceoer, MO. Each won a heat and battled every turn and every lap. I think Stover won it on time.

Second best race is any race with Rich Runne and Craig Bowman in it.

My dad never ran a runabout and neither have I, and don't plan on it. I know I don't have the skill and I have enough trouble trying figure out a hydro.

B Simmons

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Best boat race I ever witnessed was watching Stover Hire(rollup w/toilet bowl 20H) and Paul Kalb(flat turner w/Hot Rod & no side fin I think) battle at the '62 NOA semi pro (mod) BU Championships in Creve Ceoer, MO. Each won a heat and battled every turn and every lap. I think Stover won it on time.

Second best race is any race with Rich Runne and Craig Bowman in it.

My dad never ran a runabout and neither have I, and don't plan on it. I know I don't have the skill and I have enough trouble trying figure out a hydro.

B Simmons

Don't race but spectate a bit, hydrobouts drag race don't they?
Anyways drivers rule,hope so anyway and if they cut their # down to elim. themselves there certainly are plenty of classes to replace them. Runabouts rule.
RichardKCMo

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

And that's another thing

That's because this roll-up advocate had a hand in setting the course. How'd you all like Brinkman's 2nd turn moves in 25SSR elims?

Them hydro guys been laying out those courses to long , 'bout time to make 'em real 'gain. Boat races i mean, maybe run hydro/ runabout combined, just a thought for a format.?
Richard F.

[MGallagher]

Safety...

Boat racing is dangerous! I am afraid if I fall out of the boat i will be cut by a side fin first before a motor would hit me(AJ Jennings would say diferently).
Danger is what makes it fun, that, beleive it or not, is the real reason we all do this. Yes, you can make it more or less dangerous but it is still always going to be. Without any significant change in the existing format, these small changes are not going to make it more or less safe.
Roll it Up in every class is my new rule!
Yes, I race a side fin, but I rarly take it to the inside because I am afraid if someone crashes in front of me I would cut them with that sword on the side of the boat. If I had the money, the time and the resources I would build a roll up for me, but I don't, and my uncle is nice enough to let his pain in the -ss nephew run his stuff.
As for BSR, if we let side fins in it would be like killing off the thing that built this sport, Rolling it Up! My brother is one of the most talented roll up drivers I have seen and to put side fins on BSRs will take away the opportunity for fans and other young drivers to watch, learn and appreciate from him and other boat racers like him, what boat racing is all about.

Matt Gallagher
58J

PS: I know the thrill of competition is a big part of boat racing, but without danger we would all compete playing scrabble!

[AJennings]

Safety...

Boat racing is dangerous! I am afraid if I fall out of the boat i will be cut by a side fin first before a motor would hit me(AJ Jennings would say diferently).

no matt i would have to agree with you, that scared the me to death.

AJ

[MGallagher]

I was refering to the Nationals wreck when that boat used you as a ramp and you got hit with that lower unit

matt gallagher
58J

[Richard K.C. Mo.]

Sounds good to this spectator!!!

Kevin: You race the class as it is and show us how good you really are! Then we can talk about changing the rules "for the good of the class."

Sorensen is right: BSR is the only REAL runabout class left, Stock, Mod, Pro, J, Inboard (okay, those skiff guys could probably run B Runabout). In my opinion, A,25,C and D Runabout were ruined with the side fin. Side fins make runabouts sissy boats. Ask any REAL runabout driver. You Hydro guys have plenty of classes to run. How about we mandate 1 pin turns at the Wakefield nationals to save the cost of all the buoys your hydro fins destroy??? We'll see just how fast and safe those side turn fins are then.

This kinda sounds to me like the "we've got to change the school curriculum so it meets the girls' needs" type of argument.

Anybody not know what I think about this point?

Kevin: Are you bored, or what? Eddie.

And while yous' are at it , review the rules from stock from 50s/60s and you will see there were some.
Hope this doesn't mean we all have to wear dresses too.

RichardKCMo

[Nilsen Racing]

What is a BSR?

Great thoughts, opinions, suggestions, etc. regarding the BSR class...roll-up verse flat turn, only real runabout class left, safety, to name a few. Sorry, I just had to ask (BSR?) since many of the racers west of the Mississippi have never seen a BSR or BSH race in competition. My family has had the opportunity over the last six years to attend the Stock Nationals at Wakefield and Whitney Point, so I guess you could say we are in the minority.

So where am I going here? I guess I'm looking at the growth of the B stock class in general, especially west of the Mississippi, and specifically in Region 10 where the basic philosophy is "if you brung it, we run it". Add to this the fact that Region 10 (Seattle Outboard Association) is hosting the 2007 Stock Nationals...what a great place to showcase and promote the B class to the west. With the Selweitch (sp) group, including Dean, Ed and others building a new Hot Rod Outboard Motor, which will hopefully be ready by the 2007 Nationals (so we have a new B motor). What about easy accessibility to boats? Hydro's shouldn't be a problem, but runabouts? I'm not taking sides here, but if you are interested in building the class out west, I think you need to seriously consider that most of our runabout drivers race flat turners...Sorenson's or Zorkin's. Sure safety is always an issue, but I don't know if a side fin or a bottom fin makes that much of a difference safety wise. I'm sure we all have our thoughts on this and can show exceptions. My exception is on page 15 of the July 2005 Propeller Magazine. My son in a side fin Sorenson, launching...like going off a water ski jump...over another ASR that hooked in front of him. The side fin probably did less damage to the other boat then if it had a bottom fin (just my thoughts).

Again, I'm not taking one side or the other here. I'm a traditionalist at heart. I just ask that you keep an open mind when considering (true) growth of the BSR class in particular, but also the B stock class in general and us racers out west.

Jim

[Jesse_Swain]

Bsr

I totally understand the need for class growth and all of that. I mean, why wouldn't I want my beloved BSR class to grow right? However I think you may lose quite a few of the current BSR drivers on the day that they get passed going through the corner by side fin BSR. I know i would think about hanging it up...

Jesse Swain

5-H