Reconsider your BSR rules...

[Andrew 4CE]

I'd say if you are talking visability as safety.... roll up is MUCH safer! Boats with side fins and that dig in on the right rear chine throw a huge amount of spray out to the side blasting and frequently blinding everyone to the right. With roll ups there is very little spray which makes it possible to race so close together.

If you are worried there is someone on your outside and you can't see them (poor argument in my mind as a hydro and runabout racer), just drive expecting there is someone there... hold your line as the rules for all classes state.

I think there are many people out there who would be attracted to the class because it is only roll ups.

I'm a roll up ASR racer and the day a roll up can't cut it any more is the day I'll quit racing runabouts. I got into it because of the fun, thrill and skill required to roll it up. I'll race my hydros if I want a side fin ride.

And someone mentioned skiffs... lets make BSR the JSS of outboards... can you imagine a skiff with a side fin because it was the quicker way around!!??


People LOVE the skiffs as they do watching a bunch of roll ups going into a corner.

My 2 cents canadian which is moving up in value! haha. about $.018 now... haha.

Andrew

[race4kaos]

fine...

... i'll drop it. you B'classic'SR guys can race amongst yourselves. screw class growth, and even more Hot Rod potential.

and yes nightmoves, ed single handedly ruined the ASR class by his own definition. his desilva 'jet-ski' hydrobout was the first flat turning ASR in the midwest (and it dominated).

ed, please recall i did try a BSR roll-up at Alex, KY. had check in hand for one of the first carbon fiber racecraft boats. i was along side you and dana until half way thru the first turn and couldn't lay it flat coming out. i'm not disagreeing that the class requires skills...
you mis-quoted me... i said for the betterment of SO, not the current class drivers.

under the same principle this rule was instated why don't you let:
-J drivers (not parents) vote whether to increase restrictor size to go faster?
-25SSH drivers vote on removing their restrictor to go faster (despite messing up future class structure plans)?
-DSR drivers vote to keep their class at National status despite having 4 boats?
-CSH drivers to not allow Joe Pater's goofey windshield... ?

some of these might pass - that's why it shouldn't just be voted on by the current drivers...

i won't care anymore. Jack McCourtie put me up to this whole thing... (kidding).

out-

[Andrew 4CE]

Obviously there will always be arguments for both sides of any situation... what makes the difference is the people who go to a national meeting and try to do something for what they believe in or go and defend what they believe in.

[dholt]

Some clarity...

Kudos K. Ladd for stirring up the pot. Been terribly quiet around here for months.

Been reading from the top and had some thoughts.

From '90 till the year the rule was inacted ('99)...I recall only 2 side fin BSR's in competition. The venerable 107-M and Steven Dawe had one in Hinton in '93 or '95. So...didn't really seem to be very popular even when legal.

In '98 I tested our first two Z Craft ASR boats with the Hot Rod. It was a rocket. A fat 1 mph faster on top end and certainly tons better punch than the Racecraft. Trouble was, I blew it over the second heat I ran it. It was a handful in choppy, regular race water. So, the argument that hoardes of side fin ASR boats are waiting for a Hot Rod on the transom is off base. No way, no how are most of the current, light as a feather, wide as hell ASR boats safe enough for 59 mph.

So...even though I had a potential big time edge..I still voted against side fin BSR because of exactly what Ed previously stated.

Also, while Ed did have an impressive winning record with his bathtub ASR...the wide bottom, flat turners were around well before '97.

D. Carl won with the Sorensen in '93...and was by far the fastest in '94 but blew the start in heat two. By the way, that Sorensen was built in '87.

Since 1990, nine ASR National Champs have won in flat turners...seven rolling them up.

The point about drivers voting on issues concerning their class is a good one. It happens all the time. Weight rules, etc...are left of up to drivers of the class. Guess this issue fell into same bin.

Gotta go....my Bass 'D' needs some dyno work this afternoon.

D.

[nightmoves]

I too dont run this class anymore and the calss I do run has a side fin, I dont think I would drive it without, but I do remember Lochaven 2004 for A and BSR - all rollups, Lambertville 2005 - all rollups.
As for safety with a sidefin, I dont think it is the safest way around for visibility due to the spray off these fins, and crashes are more inclined to happen in the turns with a side fin as opposed to a roll-up boat. ( just my opinion)
I agree that the drivers for this class have a right to a re-do on the voting if they all can agree to get together to do so.

Another winter, another B-stock controversy.............

[Abbott Racing]

I'd like to put my 2 cents on this seeing as I've had the opportunity to race a round chine CSR, test a flat turning CSR and actually raced a skiff....

The round chine ride is an art, no doubt about it you are constantly working the boat on the straights and thru the turns. As far as a thrill sensation I loved the flat turner as I found it is a whole different feeling, still have to work the boat on the straights to get maximum lift, speed etc.... the setup for the turn is different but still requires work....... Being a hydro driver I can't compare it to a hydro because it is different.

As for the Skiff analogy, well the skiffs are a different breed of race boat it is a class that replicates the rum runners of the prohibition era, and essentially the only evolution this hull has seen is from wood to fiberglass or other composite materials. THe lines are the same the imitation wood planks are the same so you can't compare this to runabouts. Our runabouts have evolved in design (both rollups and flat turners) where the skiff still looks the same after ????? years.

My son now races ASR and ASH and I got him a flat turner as I felt it is the way to go, I received criticism from some older racers because I have denied him the rollup experience. I see it as a personal choice.

So for the BSR class, if the members feel they can sustain growth by sticking with the rollup concept then so be it. However if there is a real case for class growth then perhaps it is something to look at.

PS: as for the speed aspect, Craig Bowman looked real quick at Dayton this year with a round turner.........

[Andrew 4CE]

Yup, we're right on schedule...

[Andrew 4CE]

dang typo... LOL.

[14-H]

If I remember correctly Ed, you were one of the first side fin boats in 98' 99' to run ASR...........

You remember wrong. Holt, Froelich, Dawe and others were running these as far back as the early 90's. I fought it tooth and nail in the A class but finally gave up. Holt had set nearly every ASR record by 1996 with his flat-turn Sorensen. In fact, my bathtub boat design came with the motivation to knock Holt off of his top spot. It worked... for a while. By the way, the ride stinks compared to a roll-up.

Don Allen: Roll-up is the key. Ed.

[14-H]

... ***under the same principle this rule was instated why don't you let:
-J drivers (not parents) vote whether to increase restrictor size to go faster?
-25SSH drivers vote on removing their restrictor to go faster (despite messing up future class structure plans)?
-DSR drivers vote to keep their class at National status despite having 4 boats?
-CSH drivers to not allow Joe Pater's goofey windshield... ?

out-

Kevin: you left one out: 25SSR drivers vote on whether the yamato should be further restricted! I figured that was your real angle on this whole point. Ed.

[14-H]

***

PS: as for the speed aspect, Craig Bowman looked real quick at Dayton this year with a round turner.........

That's because this roll-up advocate had a hand in setting the course. How'd you all like Brinkman's 2nd turn moves in 25SSR elims?

[14-H]

Ladd BSR Ride

Kevin: I ran your proposal by Paul. He thinks you really ought to try it one more time in a good roll-up boat and has stepped up to the plate to offer his rig to you at one of the local races in 2006. Although he did bet me your $100 that you'd fall out before the end of the third lap.

He did have one requirement, however. You have to run his gas. I don't know what that's all about???

[BROCCOLI]

What is a "side fin"? Are they new; the coming thing?
I need to know as I am planning to build a new boat.
The old one was lost in a fire.

Craig

[Andrew 4CE]

Think of them as training wheels Craig... so no worries for you.

[hagerl8m]

Fun in the sun

Well after my great trip to Jamaica for Jim's wedding I get home to read this, and all started by my buddy K Ladd. I wasn't currently racing BSR when the rule was passed, but I would rather race that rollup class over any other class. I know what your saying that it could help build the class, but why should you change something that isn't broken? From what I see the class is already started to grow, even before motors are made. And Kevin your little sister races BSR and has no problem rolling it up. I have no problems with side fins, but your not going to catch me in one. I stopped racing ASR because everyone said I needed to have a side fin. There is just my two cents. But when you ask people which class is the most fun to watch 80% of people say that 12 BSRs going into the first turn is one of the coolest things in boat racing, why would you want to change it.

Oh yeah I forgot when some one flips in front of me, with my rollup, I can turn right or harder left to miss it, not just left.

Christopher green boat 8