Big Changes to BSR May Be Happening!

[61-W]

As a BSR driver since 1988 and not a member of the current SORC, I am starting this post as a way to help the SORC make some informed and educated decisions this year at the 2018 APBA National Meeting in January. As it stands right now, they are tossing around ideas such as allowing side fins boats again, raising the weight, calling the current class 15ssr again and making a pure unrestricted 20 ci Sidewinder class as well as making a 20 ci Sidewinder sealed class. The problem is that they don't really have any idea why the current BSR class has not seen growth. It appears there has only been a decline in driver participation. I am asking all of you who read this stuff on HR, but don't often post, to please submit your thoughts and ideas. I also think it would help the SORC make decisions, if they knew these changes to the existing class would help your race team commit to purchasing and fielding a rig.The idea here is to help grow the class. If in reality, there really are no legitimate constraints to growing the class other then people are just not interested, then no changes should be made. We should only fix thing that are broken, not make things worse. Please, if you are seriously interest in running this class in the future, post now.

Thanks

Jeff Scheffler 61-W

[Big Don]

Jeff, thanks for posting this. I know I as a member of the SORC, am completely baffled as to the reason BSR has not grown, and in my eyes, declined in participation.

[Peter24m]

The reason BSR has declined is not because of a side fin issue or a weight issue or a restrictor issue. It is purely a motor availability issue. Until the motor is readily available the class won't grow.


Another thought maybe APBA should invest in Sidewinder to help prevent the part shortages? It is the only motor manufacturer in the world building motors specifically for APBA and Stock Outboard...

[Big Don]

Peter, the 20 Sidewinder was approved back in 2008 I believe. I'm not exactly sure when they actually had them made ready to buy but let's assume it was 2010 or 2011. I have to believe if someone orders one they get one. May not be as fast as we/they want, but they do get them. I was to understand that anyone that had one on order last year before Nationals received theirs before Nationals. So if someone wanted one, they need to get their name on the list. It seems to not held the A class participation down in the 20's. In all reality, there was probably under 10 real BSR last year. I just don't understand why this class is not growing.

[Peter24m]

Don, I know Thomas raced BSR a few times in the last couple years, what is the reason or reasons that he or you guys don't race the class regularly?

[Big Don]

Peter that is a good fair question.

Thomas does not have the money to buy one himself, so that would leave me to pay for it. Not happening at this time. I will say, Thomas really like the ride and class.

Your next question is why not. Yamatos are in my opinion a better value, plus I already have 10's of thousands already invested in other stuff. I would want a second engine and I'm not throwing $11,000.00 at the class then have to invest in props. Plus I then would want a better boat...

I would have to think that is the issue with a large majority of us. It's tuff starting over especially if you have not raced the class at all. Plus we are really, and I mean really spoiled with Yamatos. They are so reliable that all you need to do is re-ring them. Yes once in awhile they need to come all the way down but not often. You hear guys say, I've had this Yamato 80, 102 or 302 for 20 years and all I have ever done was hone them and throw in a set of rings.

[csh-2z]

Jeff, good to hear from you. The only things I would like to see changed for BSR would be a weight increase to 385# or 390# and possibly pulling the restrictor although that is not really that important. We could also entertain having two weights, one with the restrictor and one without. The primary reason for the higher weights would be to allow a larger driver to run the class competitively. Remember too that most of these proposals will end up on a ballot for the BSR participants only to vote on.

Aside from Peter's statement about availability, which I agree with, is how do you start/grow the class in Regions that currently have none? The only thing I've come up with is if we can approve the Yamato 80's in BSH, eventually you'll have motors in those Regions that some will want to put on runabouts.

[squirrelboydeluxe]

If the Grand Wizards approve the Y80 for BSR, that would go a very long way in my (already percolating) notion to buy a wacusee...
522-P

[Darlene]

We do not need the y 80 in BSR.

[Peter24m]

Just curious, when was the last time you could buy a brand new hotrod?

[dholt]

Probably last time you could buy a complete, new Hot Rod was late '88-90 from the actual factory (Dave Little).
That engine has a very fuzzy history. By that time there were so many engines out there that used equipment was pretty easy to get...you could buy new parts as well.
Can't recall exactly when Dave sold the biz. The hey day for the "factory" was early/mid 80's.

There were certainly reliability issues then...and unfortunately there are reliability issues with the SW now. That's not good for sales.

[bmitch1]

On that reliability question - we need to ask more detailed and honest questions on any new failures. It is always difficult to ascertain what might have been self-induced by the consumer versus what might be a design/material issue....but it has come to my attention that failures on the most current design may have occurred only after the motor was opened by the customer and the individual engineering began.

The machining tolerances on the SW are close enough that some of the old Hod Rod tricks don't work, or the tolerances of the SW don't work the same way. I'm not saying everything is perfect but if we are being honest with ourselves we need to clearly sort what failures occurred as a result of individual tweaks, post-sale. For anyone with first-hand experience, feel free to chime in.

[racer3j]

In an effort to promote the BSR class... I will sell a 2008 Carbon Racecraft BSR minus hardware, along with a new Sidewinder 20. This engine only has one race on it, and that one race was the nationals in which it won. This is only to promote the BSR class, this package will not be broken up. $6500.00

[Dominc24Q]

If there are talks of running an unrestricted 20c.i. SW in BSR shouldn't there be some talk of adding the 20c.i. Hot Rod to the class? If you are looking to grow the class why not why not add the 20c.i. Hot Rod to at least give people a cheaper option. I know there are quite a few Hot Rod guys out there that would love to compete in this class again but will never buy a Sidewinder.

[Big Don]

Dom would that get you back? I hope so.

[Dominc24Q]

It would certainly get me thinking about it....

[j hydro racer]

I guess I can chime in here, having been part of the BSR crowd for quite some time now, but having rolled up since J and AX. I don’t think rolling up is the leading cause of people not running Bsr today, I think the problem started when the smaller classes stopped rolling up. Nowadays a young driver starts racing Jsr flat turning, generally uses the same boat for Axr when old enough. So these drivers have been racing for a few years now and have become used to driving the flat turners and the ride is hardly different than a Jsh or axh. Besides the struggling, underpower that causes the bouncing. It might be that after racing the A class, these drivers are selecting which type they prefer. Some stop racing runabouts all together. I know as a kid I couldn’t wait until I was able to try my hand at rolling up with some of the drivers I grew up watching like Dom, Ed and Greg and the rest of team race craft.

I think the numbers as a whole of runabout racers is lower because when given the choice, most drivers would prefer the smooth ride that is usually promoted with any hydro class, if you looked on trailers years ago, drivers would have a hydro and a runabout of which ever class they ran. Maybe it has to do with entry fees or the feeling of being rushed while trying to switch motors, not really sure why but there has to be a reason.
I can say that this past summer we drove to a few races specifically because we knew there would be both Bsh and Bsr, instead of going to a race with a five hour ride, I drove 15 hours one way. Not many racers have the ability to do that and unless classes like Bsh and Bsr can be built and grow at the local club level, I just don’t feel that adding sidefins or the Yamato 80 to Bsr will achieve the growth that we are looking for and ultimately will push some of the current drivers out of the class all together.

If you want to start racing Bsr, call Dylan and get on that deal. Let’s build this great class. If the fear of not knowing how to roll up is stopping you, reach out to me, young, old, veteran or new to the sport, I’m willing to help drivers learn.

Side note, if rolling up is stopping drivers from racing this class. Why are the numbers for Top O growing every year? Doesn’t seem to hold anyone back from racing there. Looking forward to coming back next year!

[Peter24m]

Well said Johnny.

[Big Don]

Johnny, thanks for commenting. I'll share something else and it has to do with rolling up a boat.

I tried rolling up a boat back in the day, tried it once in 25 and I s#cked. I came in and told my dad, no thanks I'd rather run 25H & BSH. Could I have learned, probably, but it was going to take some work... fast forward to Thomas running BSR 2 years ago. I will admit I figured it was going to be a disaster. Not because of Thomas, but because I had this preconceived notion that they take forever to learn. I was shocked how well he did. He loved it and looked like he had driven the rig before.

Also take Spencer Davidson that Ed Hearn put in his rig. He jumped in that boat and drove it so well his first time it was crazy.

I think some can drive right away and maybe some take a little longer. My point is, maybe the boats are better and that helps, but no one should be scared to try if they really want to. I bet over 50% of the BSR drivers would let anyone race or try their rig to get some interest.

I was really leaning towards allowing side fins to try and grow the class, but I'm so torn on this issue after talking to people. I just need to really understand why it's not growing.

BTW...I wish Thomas had listened to me and saved more money. I would be all over the Runne rig posted above. If anyone is interested in this class, jump on that offer. I bet RIch would even help them test.

[racer3j]

Let me preface this with saying I love rolling up, and absolutely agree that it is one of the best classes out there. BSR may be the only class I will ever race where I am content with a third place finish, only because I know I have raced some of the best. However, I think what has triggered this decrease in interest is bigger than BSR, or boat racing in general. There is a new generation of kids coming into the sport... The Millennial generation. This is the next generation of boat racing, this is a generation known for a lack of work ethic, poor sportsmanship, and an instant gratification mentality. BSR is not the class for these types of kids, they will choose to stick with the flat turning classes, because it is a quicker learning curve, and much easier to master. BSR takes years to become even some what proficient in, and although we think it is fun, I don't feel that this next generation will have the patients to master this skill. BSR is an intimidating class to jump into, all of us young guys have gotten a taste of it, and that has made us the drivers we are today. I personally just don't think the kids coming up now are interested in this type of learning curve. For the record, I am also part of this millennial group, along with many of the other BSR drivers, but if you look at the current BSR drivers, a majority are multi generation boat racers, we are a different breed that grew up watching this type of racing and were coached in this direction, that is not the case for many of the kids coming up in the next 5-10 years. Now for anyone who wants to come race BSR, I posted my nationals winning Sidewinder for Sale, along with a like new carbon fiber BSR... so here is your chance, I have an available engine, and boat... let's see how much interest there really is.

[Peter24m]

In addition to Dylan’s rig I also have one for sale. Kevin Mallalieu built B runabout, boat was fastest qualifier at grass lake nationals 2012 and a fresh 20 sidewinder. $6500 231-330-6371

[kev29p]

Holy crap, that boat is still alive?!

[Peter24m]

Alive and well

[csh-2z]

BSR is the only runabout class that just about everybody comes to the shoreline to watch. No side fin, No Yamato 80, raise the weight 20-25# and pull the restrictor. Always a great race to watch.

[61-W]

Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts and ideas on this important topic so far. Please keep the ideas coming! I would like to begin by sharing the reasons for my departure from BSR as well as ASR. There was no doubt we were given plenty of time to plan for the transition to the new Sidewinder engines in BSR as well as ASR. It realistically took about ten years from when the announcement was made that the SORC was looking at introducing the Sidewinder into the BSR and ASR classes. As we all know, the factory struggled for a while with engine issues, then when the SORC designated it as the engine of choice in both classes, the factory and the SORC worked together to make it the classes they are today. I had a ton of money invested in both OMC and Hotrod engines, in both stock and mod versions. I made a decision to race both ASR and BSR heavily until it got to the point my rigs were no longer competitive enough to qualify for the finals of the Stock Outboard Nationals. I will only race if I can compete at or close to a National level of performance. I am not interested in regional classes or regional racing. Once the Sidewinder factory slowly got the gremlins worked out of their engines, the time came for me to make the decision to no longer race Stock Outboard. First came the BSR class 3 years ago, then a year later the ASR class. The transition for me to Modified Category in 200ccmr and 250ccmr was easy because I already had the equipment. I didn't have the $9000.00 required to buy a new 15ci and 20 ci Sidewinder engine.
The decision was strictly FINANCIAL! This year while attending the Stock Outboard Nationals (and watching from shore), I made a decision to sell my son Jace's good Mercury AX engine which he has outgrown and put my name on the Sidewinder (List) to get a new 15S power head to use on my Hotrod tower assembly, so I can race in ASR again as well as ASH. With placing my name on (The List) late this past July, I have hopes of having it early enough this spring to be able to test it before the May 19th race in Pell Lake WI. It will be a struggle to have enough runabouts here in region 7. I am not alone with my story. Most of my fellow competitors in Region 7 are in my same situation and share my views. I know this is not popular with all the (Big Picture Plans) everyone has for the future of our organization, but this is life and reality! So don't take it lightly. There may not be any racers left if the SORC is not careful on their decisions on all of our classes.

Thanks for reading.

Jeff Scheffler 61-W