Big Changes to BSR May Be Happening!

[dholt]

After 27 years in BSR it was tough to step away. Best ride ever had. But investing over $5k in a motor that still has issues was not in the cards. Especially when participation around the east is so weak. Unless you drive to Michigan you're not racing. Been to winter nationals over past couple years and saw 4 boats or less. Not worth the work for that when 20 and CSH have elims or full fields everywhere I go. Plus as Don said I'm spoiled by yamato. Not one issue in 19 years with 5 different motors, all fast too.
I've watched and talked to veteran smart guys that can't get SW going. Like Dave Bennett struggled mightily with his A. I've watched flywheels go sailing with broken cranks.
but I'm not the target audience we need fresh blood in the class but where are they?

[Flatiron]

You really had my interest in BSR until I read your comment about waiting for a engine and being on a list. What is the wait time on a new Sidewinder. What kinda total weight are we looking at . I'm 200 lbs

[Peter24m]

There is no wait time if you buy one of the rigs on this thread.

[csh-2z]

Regardless of a wait time, the sooner you order a motor the sooner you will get the motor. It's that way with everything in life.

I believe there will be a proposed weight of 385#, so that guys your size can run on weight in a Runnecraft (for example)

[mercsami]

Flying flywheels and broken cranks were the growing pains of the early Sidewinders,all that has been corrected.Embrace the new motor,give it a chance,because it and the 321 yamatos are the future of stock outboard.IMHO

[ryan_4z]

Don't you all take this lightly.

And think long and seriously on why it is you all don't fail to miss a BSR race.

And why, 12 or naught of us the final is always paired with 20 or C in the feature set at the nationals. Even though the 12 today ain't the long dedicated 12 from yesterday. (And none of them was David Dewald (not even Ed).) Those guys all quit. And there is actually, just by progenation, a new generation of drivers. That is interesting. Considering that reproduction should at least keep us alive not dying, the BSR class has turned over generationally without hangover and basically just as strong as before. The sport as a whole cannot say this. (Shows great potential for growth, under the circumstances.)

The fortune lady says, if BSR fails, so shall you all!!!!!

Be Ware!

BSR is universally agreed upon as the coolest class. Make an argument that isn't CSH and you will get laughed at.

BSR can race on any course, any time, any day. Only class that can say this.

Best chance for putting on a show is BSR.

BEST CHANCE TO NO HATE YOURSELF OR REGRET YOUR TIME AFTER A RACE IS IN A BSR....(period)

[csh-2z]

Your last sentence sounds beer induced!

[ryan_4z]

It's all about loving yourself. If you truly love your self you will give your self the chance to bank turn a runabout...

[csh-2z]

With todays boats rolling up is not as difficult as it used to be. It does take practice like anything else you want to be good at.

Don't just watch those guys, be one of them.

[Matt Dagostino]

So what would be the problem letting both roll up and side fin boats race together in BSR? With 25 BSR's left in the country is this really a big deal? Are you up for it 4-Z..?

[jsilvestri]

Having raced 15SSR/BSR for 12 years against the best runabout drivers (Dewalds/Horst's/Mallilui/Austin/Frolick/Holt/Hearn/Ross, to many to name, etc... (Sorry for the misspellings). in the last 30-40 years and it was a blast! I got out in 01 due to lack of participation. I've considered getting a sidewinder but again lack of participation. Plus, I do like racing CSH just as much as I did BSR. Just me! I'm becoming a J dad now so it's out of the equation for me. I will say this, back when I raced BSR you could utilize a side fin but most did not. If you were a GOOD runabout driver you didn't need it. Dig up the old tapes of the guys I listed above and they flat turned an rooled it up through the turns with a bottom fin and it was FASTER than a side fin boat! Let the flat turn boats in the class and sharpen your driving skills as a roll up driver and you'll be faster than that side fin boat and have more competitors to race against! If your still worried about the side fin boat put a bottom with max on the class and that will even things out. The one big advantage a side fin boat has over a roll up is a wide bottom which equals more air which equals a bigger prop which can equal more speed! Good luck and I love the passion shown by the young guys!

[ryan_4z]

The bottom width idea is a good one. It would definitely be an equalizer.

[ryan_4z]

Joe,

I dig everything you are putting down. I would love the challenge of trying to beat up on the fin boats every weekend with my ol' bank turner. If the prevailing thought is that allowing side-fins will help the class, then I will be all for it. The fact is, all the other runabout classes are way down too, except 25ssR. On a percentage basis, the B classes have rebounded under Sidewinder better than the A classes. Until we fix our organizational issues, all the classes will struggle to grow. Except, obviously, 300.

Like I say, I would relish the challenge. But, once the scales tip and more guys are driving fin boats than bankers, the quality of racing will be gone forever. As you know, the spray from a side-fin can be very upsetting to inside traffic. 'Chine banging' just doesn't happen as much in side-fin classes. Not in the corners. And corner peel-overs don't happen often (or ever) in roller boats. The dynamic of the racing will forever be changed. It won't be the same for anybody, not even you hydroplaners who love to watch us knuckleheads.

[61-W]

I am really on the fence about the side fin issue. If not allowing side fins in BSR is really a constraint to the growth of the class, consider this, there is no technique learning curve to step into a BSH compared to say a ASH or AXH. Why have we not seen a huge increase in the BSH class now that 20 ci Sidewinders are available? Just wondering.

Jeff Scheffler 61-W

[Matt Dagostino]

Jeff..............so how would you feel about allowing both side-fin and roll-up's being allowed in BSR? Would it help grow the class?

[61-W]

Matt, as you know I drive both rollup and side fin runabouts. I sort of agree with Ryan's comments that in the short term the class MAYBE will pickup a driver or two if side fins are allowed. The new driver still needs to buy an engine AND a new boat. Both are pretty spendy. If a perspective driver thinks he will just buy an engine and throw it on his or her AXR or ASR current side fin runabout, they are in for a very wet experience in the near future. In my opinion, going 8mph faster in your current ASR and AXR boats will have a very negative effect on the way they handle. I have built and raced both styles of boats for a lot of years and it will take a longer, slightly narrower boat forward of the dash to safely and successfully race a side fin boat at BSR speeds. I also agree with Ryan's comments that in the long term, the class will transition from a roll up class to a side fin class, more boring to race and watch. I vote no!

Jeff Scheffler 61-W

[61-W]

To address the 25lbs weight increase proposal , for those that don't remember, that was the old 20ci BSR weight before the class was eliminated. If this were to pass, the only way to still have the snappy ride we all love, the restrictor will need to be pulled from the 20 ci Sidewinder. Without running the 20 ci Sidewinder unrestricted, all the added weight will do is slow the class down by about 1mph, lose punch and make it harder to drive. Pulling the restricter would definitely put the nail in the coffin for any courageous 15 ci Hotrod drivers if any still exist.

Jeff Scheffler 61-W

[Big Don]

Interesting, had not thought that the 25 lbs would change the ride that much.

[pav225]

Would more people be willing to go from a side fin ASR to a side fin BSR?

[Big Don]

That is the million dollar question.

[Big Don]

I think that is what I was hoping to see on this thread...ASR guys saying they would go BSR if there were side fins. But I’m not seeing that.

[18W]

I would say the decline can be traced to many factors and not just one.

Alienating the Hot Rod drivers who were the backbone of the class. Those are the guys that were putting new guys into rigs to get them a ride in the class. My 15's are pretty descent and don't stand a chance against a sidewinder unless it has mechanical issues. Why would I even entertain the thought of putting anyone into a ride where I know they have an at best minimal chance to even be competitive?

Another issue I see is that the natural transition up in classes lead people to the Yamato classes with the bang for the buck and numerous classes that can be raced with minimal investment for a stable, reliable, minimal maintenance ride.

Motor supplies and reliability also play a part in stunted growth. Racers want to race now, not wait to get on the water. I take nothing away from Ed and Ron. I understand there is manufacturing lead times, but everyone has a time limit they are willing to wait. That time frame can persuade to other classes.

I agree with Jeff on the side fin issues. The old train of though was that you could race A(OMC) and B(Hot Rod) on the same boat, and you could. With the newer A and AX boats, I believe that there are very few current boats that would cross over to B and be safe to race. I feel this solution is only a band aid and not restricting long term growth.

I don't doubt the point Dylan makes about the competition level. I was fortunate enough to race against multi time Nation Champs on a weekly basis. My learning curve was sped up by chasing those guys every race. I wanted to catch up and race among those guys, not just watch the great battles they were having.The younger generation has the reward me know mentality. Even though racing is real life and not a screen, the mentality for the most part remains the same. Changing that mentality is a larger than a BSR growth issue.

Davey18w

[Flatiron]

Here's a thought, While watching the roll up runabout videos it seems like there is definitely a lot of technique and skill involved. Some may even be intimated by a roll up. Maybe have a advanced drivers school. At events where they are having drivers school put the word out that while class time is going on for new drivers. Prospective roll up drivers could get some on water instruction.

[90M]

As being one of the older generation I am of the opinion of why race a runabout unless you roll it up. I raced James's new rig at Big Rapids to make a class and had a great time even not being competitive with my weight. We have raced for many years in 25ssr and to our disappointment had to go to a side fin to be competitive all the way around the race course. We have thought of going to CSR many times because of being able to race at every race,
but James loves the ride of the BSR so much we have put that on hold. We have had our share of trouble with both the sidewinder and Yamato, but with the help of others have made both work. People tend to forget that when the 300 came out we had to wait for our first motor because of limited availability in the US. I say leave the class alone and just promote it.
Larry Klein