The Silly Season

[dholt]

I beg to differ, Ryan, on side fins and restrictor plates.
Look at the CSR numbers. In the early 2000s it exploded as side fin boats took over. Seems like everyone was jumping in a CSR because it was much easier to drive than a roll up. But the numbers did decline after several years. I believe it's because many guys realized they really DIDN'T belong in the class because they were too light and it's still a tough class to drive...side fin or not.

25ssR was dramatically increased when the restricted Yamato was legalized in early 2000s. Not saying it was the right decision...but you see how the class rebounded from nothing to at least viable.

As for 20ssH, I'm sure the numbers would be much lower if the restricted 102/302 hadn't been legalized nearly 20 years ago. 80 parts would be pretty scarce by now.

And while there still may be a debate about whether side fins and/or plates have helped racing...what has increased participation? Certainly can't say NEW engines have made a big impact. In the past 5-7 years....

DSH has gone from 40-50 boats to low 20s.

ASH went from 90-100 to 70.

ASR went from 75-80 to 50.

BSH/BSR have dropped 5-10.

The only class that has grown is 300ssH. WHY?

20ssh/CSH have been only classes to maintain virtually same levels. WHY?

I fully believe we NEED new engines...and believe replacing the OMC and the Hot Rod were good ideas. But here's my question. WHY aren't people buying 'A' and 'B' Sidewinders and 'D' Tohatsu in droves?

Lastly...take a look at the MOD participation numbers in that document I posted in Dylan's thread. The downturn over the past 10 years has been similar to Stock. What common denominators are in Stock/Mod? As Kyle posted in the other thread, the race day format could have a lot to do with it. Guys are sick of sitting around all weekend for 2 heats at the end of the day...watching 3-4 boat races in 20 classes. Shake things up. We have to evolve our thinking.

[Wakefield 2015]

What is working..... Driver's Schools / Folks in Boats programs. Kinda interesting that MHRA and SOA are able to get new people off the street to go racing after they go thru these programs even though both clubs run 20SSH and CSH and in the case of MHRA - 300SSH too. Bill

[Big Don]

Ryan I agree 100% that our vision needs to change. Out of the box thinking is what it's going to take.

But our decline or lack of growth certainly had nothing in my opinion to do with Yamato, restrictor plates or side-fins. In my opinion, side-fins probably gave some classes a lifeline.

I'm not saying that BSR needs a side fin. That's not my point. Too many classes has certainly hurt. there are 100's of things that have hurt us. We need to figure out what it's going to take to get interest from guys that are buying cars and racing at the local track, or why are they going Kart racing, or why are they buying that dirt bike. Those are our customers and we need to understand why we can't get them.

If we don't lean on the new people that have joined us in the last few years and understand what the attraction was and why they came to us...we are missing a great opportunity to learn.

[Big Don]

I'll tell you what is working... 300Hydro...there is a reason it's grown to 63 racers in 5 years. If we don't follow that model we are all in the weeds.

[Big Don]

Listen, I agree we have classes that are boring. I hate watch 4 boat races and think we need to have competitive racing with full fields.

But this logic of people don't like watching racing because the classes look the same is just not making sense to me.

If I go to the Motorcross race there are anything from 125 to 250's in a class, the bikes all look the same other than color. Jump up a class they all look the same as the 250's but have a bigger engine that I can't tell from the stands.

Or if I go to the local dirt track the cars all look the same and I lean over to the guy next to me and say what class is this? it looks the same as the last class. It does not matter, I'm there for entertainment and to watch racing.

I have never in 48 years had an prospective racer tell me, no I'm not interested because those boats look the same, Nor have I ever had someone tell me they are not interested in the sport because that same engine is used in 2 classes? It's quite the opposite.

[94H]

I see the best growth potential in our Drivers School Program and past drivers becoming members in the Owners Club.

[ryan_4z]

Spectators are where we get new racers.

[ryan_4z]

Numbers and facts: Over the last 20 years side-fins and restrictor plates have not helped racing grow. The slow decline continues. I don't like it. I love racing 20ssH. I have run that class more than any other over the years.


We need a new vision for our sport because it has become boring and no one likes it but us.

[pav225]

We need to look at this honestly, with facts, and apply some logic.

The idea of eliminating any of the 5 largest classes in a sport is illogical. It's like Ford deciding to ditch the popular F150 because they want to sell more vans. Does not make any sense.

Sure, we can vote to force drivers to change motors, but this isn't like a utility company where you are stuck with their one choice, or you freeze in the winter. This is a hobby where people spend discretionary income. You jam them enough, and try to force motors on them, they will leave the class or racing altogether. We all need to realize that, and review some recent history with an honest view of what's been happening.

We need to do more to help grow the B class than just try and force 20ssH drivers to race it. The idea of adding Y80s to BSH to help the class grow is a good idea, but we need to do more. It's not a strong enough growth strategy to link your success to a 40 year old motor that just a few years ago people where trying to banish to the basements.

We also need a plan that's based on more than just hope. Look at the numbers and the facts. The old sales pitch was that once we have new motors, our numbers will grow quickly. That didn't happen. We really can't afford to ignore history when developing our plans.

A few years ago, the Y80 was cleverly marketed as an "antique". Now 20ssH is being marketed as CSH light, clearly to diminish the importance of Stock's 2nd largest class.

Ryan, I am completely confused by your willingness to fight a change like putting a side fin on a BSR, but have no problem suggesting we cut our 2nd largest class.

Let's focus more on growing smaller classes instead of trying to eliminate our largest ones.

- Mike

[ryan_4z]

I think that there are so many people talking about this is also a sign that there is validity in the idea. Frankly, many of us are tired of watching the same races twice and the same people always winning all the time in both classes.

[ryan_4z]

The restricted Yamatos were added to help the 80s. Now that they have taken over the class has outlived it's purpose. Spectators like my wife and sister who get so bored they don't even want to watch because the classes have no distinct identity. Spectators like the hill full of people at Rock Falls this summer. We get spectators in lil' ol Hinton, WV! Spectators we would have if we had a program worth watching.

I mean, seriously, what kind of motorsport can't attract a crowd everywhere it goes. THAT is a sign of a problem!

In motorsports, specatators equal money. And we need money from outside to relieve the clubs of their financial burden.

[Wakefield 2015]

I'm not following guys. Cutting 25SSH and DSR makes sense because these are classes on paper only, but cutting a class that has a lot of participation? Seriously, I don't understand. Bill

PS - Spectators? What spectators? I do not think "spectator confusion" should come into play at all here.

[j hydro racer]

Congrats on your efforts to build your class. The same effort was put forth years ago on the east coast for 25ssh and now the equipment is collecting dust in garages from Maine to New York. Not sure how you want us to prove Bsh is the best ride out there besides coming out to Jersey to test with us. I think it speaks highly of the quality of ride that anyone who goes for a ride in either sw bsh or bsr is actively trying to race the class. Having spent a few heats in a 25ssr and 25ssh I can agree with Ryan when he tells you that the SW will be the only comparable ride.

[ryan_4z]

Seriously then, and with all due respect, Mike. (Which you are certainly due, as one nice dude!) What is the opposition to eliminating 20ssH? Considering...

-20ssH was created to house the now 40+ year old Yamato 80
-It is now a CSH lookalike class dominated by 300 series motors. This makes both classes less interesting to watch,
-Drivers could race just as much but with a simplified race program. (No restrictor changes.)
-Higher entry fees per class are justified by more seat time.

It seems to me we are gaining more than we are losing.

Everyone keeps saying that it is our biggest class, but we have to see through the illusion. 2/3 or so of CSH drivers restrict and the rest are 80s. It's like 70 C lites and 40 Yamato Bs. We can give the 80s an outlet in BSH and give everybody more heats. This only about trying to create better class identity and eliminate overlap. We don't need two identical classes that run so close to the same speed. It is a drag on the race day for drivers and spectators.

[ryan_4z]

Ryan, If you a fishing for a ride, talk to me or Dad next Spring....the SW is the only ride that will compare with your 25.