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Unfortunately we had 10-15mph wind all day. Starting at 7:45am tomorrow.
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Shawn Breisacher -
Good luck to all the Whitney Point Divisional drivers. Drive safe and have great competition.sigpic
Dean F. Hobart
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how many classes had qualifiers for the nationals. And who were they?mike rossComment
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I think it's time to re-address this rule: ii. A Nationals qualifier shall be chosen from each of the four (4) divisional championships as per the following criteria:
I would like to see this rule go away. Keep the double points for divisionals but get rid of the National qualifier. It's not doing what it was intended to do and make the divisional races bigger.
"Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"
Don AllenComment
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Originally posted by Big Don View Post
Big Don..........you may be right but in todays world we need EVERY trailer we can get to a local race. Divisionals seem to draw a few more trailers and teams will field extra boats to make 8 entries to help qualify for the nationals and this puts money in the local clubs pocket!. I would go so far as to suggest we allow the hearty soles that are willing to travel to out of area divisionals and compete (like me and Pater) be given the double points even though we are not from that division! That would encourage more drivers to attend and help the club! Just a thought. I am more concerned with bolstering local racing than our National Championship event. The Nationals will always be well attended and make the sponsoring club money. It is the local races that need help and anything the SORC can do to draw a few more trailers to a local race is a good thing.
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How about this. Leave the double points to only those in the Division but make the National Qualifier an OPEN spot. So instead of blocking, Matt and Joe would have stolen the NE spot in the finals. Might pull some additional trailers to a Divisional that would not have normally travelled.Originally posted by Matt Dagostino View PostBrian 10sComment
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I disagree that the current format isn't helping local races/clubs. We had many, many FIRST and ONLY time drivers show up at Franklin in 2016 for the Stock Central Divisionals. Same when we had them in Akron in 2012. As Matt said, local clubs need all the boats they can get.
As for what to do about Nationals qualifier...you take that carrot away and there go your extra entries. Very few people care about the double points.
While having a person "blocked" who actually lives in the Division is a bummer...how do you fix it? Make the highest placing finisher who actually lives in the Division the National qualifier? That doesn't seem right. And you can't stop people from out of the Division from showing up to race either.
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Dana is correct. Local clubs count on their turn for Divisionals as a big BUMP in the wallet. Extra boats = more work but it helps when you are thinking of replacing club equipment or getting you ahead after a blowout or whatever. Cost of racing for a club is between 5 & 7k (depending on factors like ambulance, etc.). That's a lot of entries to cover. I hate scratching a class - that is money right out of our pocket. I will do about anything to get at least one day out of them. Every entry is worth the effort.
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Maybe I'm different. I have never gone to a divisional when I raced or when I had my kids racing thinking, let's go because of double points or maybe we can get pre-qualified. We went because we wanted to race or race against different competition or in some cases tougher competition to see where we stood.
BTW...this is nothing to do with Joe or Matt or this divisionals. I just thought this was a good thread to put this on. Matt's been too quiet."Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"
Don AllenComment
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I don't like the divisional qualifier, period.
I've been to too many divisionals where the barrel was scraped to make eight. As in a good friends words, " that's not sporty ".
The only qualifier should be the previous years champ.
TimTim WeberComment
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Originally posted by Tim Weber View Post
Tim.................we have also been to plenty of regional races where we 'scrape' to get 4 boats to have a class to race! Local clubs need enteries and it may not be sporty to drum up extra enteries to field classes but clubs need those enteries to make the monies necessary to offset the $6000 bucks it takes to put on a 'local' race. The Winter Nationals also has issues with enteries in many classes. Hence drivers figure it out and run around getting enough enteries to make boat count to get HOC and bonus points. Again it may not be 'sporty' but it helps the clubs and those are legal enteries being put on the water to compete and at the end of the day the clubs benefit and it is being done legally.
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Originally posted by Big Don View Post
Like you Big Don we just usually go where we can race and have fun against different competition...........actually where we live in Maryland (Mid-Atlantic area) we are 5- 6 hours from several regions and divisions! Whitney Point is out of our Division but closer than our own Region 4 Divisionals. We will be racing in Thompson, CT in a few weeks which is Region 1 and that is less than 7 hours from here. I have always felt that anything the SORC can do to draw boats to the local races is important and trumps concerns over a few qualifying spots being available at the Nationals. Having a few more spots available at the Nationals to me is not the measuring stick most folks consider when making plans to go to the Nationals. The Nationals is bigger than that. It is a week long social gathering of people who love boat racing and the actual racing is just a part of the equation. Hence giving up 4 spots to the respective Divisionals qualifiers i believe is not a deal killer in drawing folks to the National Championship gala............
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Matt.... I can't completely disagree with the above but......... we are talking about nationals.
We're down to the same old problem. We just need more participants which is getting tougher.
Congrats on the CSH win.
TimTim WeberComment
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I've never been a big fan of Divisional Qualifiers. I've always thought that one event has nothing to do with the other. I've been working on some data from the APBA site and you can see below the number of qualifiers by division for the past 6 years. (Note: 2015 Grass Lake info on the website was incomplete so I guessed at 5 qualifiers)
Twice in the past 6 years have had more than 50% of eligible classes had qualifiers. Actually, outside of the Central Division no division has pre-qualified more than 4 classes. I believe that this data set is accurate to a scenario that plays out everywhere but the Central Division, 20ssh, CSR and CSH have enough to meet the threshold and anything outside of that is a cobbled together class to make the eighth boat/starter. It is a far cry from droves of racers going to the divisionals in hopes of qualifying for the Nationals.
We are artificially, with not much success I might add, the importance of the Divisional Qualifier. The bonus points should be enough to entice participants on their own. And it's pretty clear that adding a national qualifier is adding limited value.Race Site QualifiersYear Seaside,OR 42011Parker, AZ 12012Coppereopolis, CA 32013Warrenton OR 32014Bakersfield, CA 22015Orville, CA 32016Depue, IL 52011Lakemore, OH 72012Rochelle, IL 42013Grass Lake, MI 52015Pell Lake, IL 52015Franklin, PA 82016Evans, GA 12012Hinton, WV 32013Tabor City, NC 22014Jesup, GA 02015Tabor City, NC 22016Wells, NY 22011Standish, ME 22012Lock Haven, PA 32013Standish, ME 22014Millville, NJ 12015Miltonm, NH 32016Last edited by adamallen; 06-06-2017, 06:24 AM.Comment
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I would also add, that if we are bent on Divisional qualifiers make the boat minimum 12. If I go to the nationals I have to be in the top 3-4 of 20 drivers. Qualifying through the divisionals should not be a lower threshold of what is mostly less competition. -
While the Divisional Qualifier isn't the 'draw' it use to be my belief having traveled the USA racing for many years it does draw extra enteries at the Divisionals. To me that means something and as you well know we need EVERY entry we can get locally even if it means giving up a few qualifying spots at the Nationals.
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Like I said, I don't like the national qualifier either. I don't think it is doing what we intended it to do. Adam, I 100% agree with your comment in post 43.1.
The argument of we need boats is a valid one but in my opinion should not influence this. Let's figure out how else we can gain entry's at all races. Joe, Mikey P, Adam, Matt, Val went to the race last weekend and it had nothing to do with the chance to qualify for the nationals.
Don't get me wrong, I know we need every entry we can get. But when 46% of our drivers are racing 3 times or less, 66% less than 6 times, 89% less than 12, which is the number to win high points. We have a way bigger issue than the divisional qualifier attracting boats. It tells me the large majority just don't want to race as much as some of us. If you look at the less than 6 and they go to Nationals...that means they are racing 2 maybe 3 other weekends. Maybe they come to Divisionals just because of the competition more than anything?
As Adam's chart shows it's not working. An average of 3 per Divisionals? Take the Central Divisionals out, it drops to 2. We need to be figuring out how to get entry's to every race.
Divisional will always draw more because for the 10% of the drivers that race for points, they will come anyways because they like to race more than most. They would probably come just because it where the competition is.
"Ask anyone, I have no friends. I do have some people that put up with me and mostly because they like the rest of my family"
Don AllenComment
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What you need to consider is what the entry totals for these Divisional races would be if they HAD NO impact on the Nationals. I can guarantee you the participation would be lower by a long shot. The real issue is lack of participants across the board. Should have 8 boats no problem but that's another issue. As for raising the minimum to 12...only division classes that may ever qualify is CSH and 20ssH in the West and Central. Otherwise...nothing. Would that 12 boat minimum keep more people from coming, knowing that they're class really has no shot at all of reaching that number? I believe so. And thus clubs lose $$$. Curious...is there a problem with the current system that needs fixed? Are not enough people qualifying at the Nationals because of Divisional qualifiers? Are not enough people going to the Nationals because of lack of qualifying spots?
If we're worried about the National final being "watered down"...there are much bigger fish to fry. Like how some drivers are cake-walking their way into the HOC by winning high points and Nationals in classes with 10 or less boats. How about we talk about that?
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Dana..........agree, agree and agree. I also think at the National Championships if you can't field 12 boats then you should have a National Champion in that class in addition your also right that no HOC points should be awarded unless 12 boats are present at the Championship!! The Nationals are a stand alone event and should be held to the highest standards we can set. Local races on the other hand need all the help and 'carrots' we can offer to get boats on the water!!
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