APBA Board of Directors

[chuck w]

I have admiration for John and howie coming forward and bringing these topics up for everyone to see.
One big problem I see is some clubs "don't have the time" to run mod classes. The schedule is already packed with stock classes.
My question to you John is how would you like to deal with this? Do you think there should be a combination of classes and or categories? Are you only worried about stock?
Howie I would love to hear the proposal you have suggested in the past. You have always taken the time to post updates on racing results and topics immediately after meetings. Not sure how you even had time with all that traveling you do but your commitment and dedication to this sport is clear.
Last question is about insurance. I was told I cannot run a mod class at a race if it's not on the schedule. If it says modified outboard it's ok but if they mention individual classes and my class isn't on there then For insurance purposes we can't run alone? Providing I was given the correct information this makes no sense to me. Why are we looking for reasons to turn people away.

Good luck to all on the election

Chuck Williams
184n

[Howie Nichols]

I wish I knew more about getting results posted in real time. I do know that you can not post an excel file here on Hydroracer, I have tried in the past. I tried to follow Guedo's posts about using One Time but do not have a great grasp on how it works. I can tell you from an Officiating standpoint that trying to post results as a judges stand worker is way to time consuming and still able to stay focused on the race, however if we had someone who was able to come up and do say a few classes at a time that may work. One difficulty is some scorers use the program to time the races instead of having a handheld timer, if this was the case they need the computer set to that class when they cross the starting line so the best option is then to post during patrol boat changes or during delays.

Chuck - I have no problem sharing what happens. The members have a right to know what is going on. John is eluding to Stock in his letter, I know he supports all the Categories but feels like a majority of the current members start in the Stock program or can get started with less out of pocket then move on as they get settled in racing.

As for Stock vs Mod on the race circular, a big issue is noise, many venues now have homes on the lakes we race at so the clubs need to limit the amount of motors with pipes on them. Secondly I know clubs list only certain classes, this does several things, it limits the classes that need to be run, it says to folks it that area hey we run these classes so if you want to start racing with us here is are your choices, not a bad idea at all in my opinion. I think if we did that and built each class up to 8 + drives at each event we would have better racing, then you can add another class into the schedule and help to build it up next. If individual classes are listed that's all you can run for insurance & liability purposes, a possible way to change this is to list 250Mod Run will race (regardless of boat count) but will be combined with ASR for example. This would allow you to race and if 3 or more were there you could get points but you would still run combined until the club decides you have enough to stand on your own.

As for the SO/MO combination I proposed (of which I am not trying to propose here) was basically to combine the categories first, and then combine some classes together which would have eliminated some Stock and some Mod classes as we understand them, for example DSH would become 750MH and 250MR would become BSR. This was in hopes to strengthen the classes, align all of our rules and give us a stronger base. I did want to have 1 Commission but then subdivide it so those with MOD expertise could bring the technical aspect of the MOD classes to the rules and the same for SO so that no one would be able to say we were favoring or destroying one or the other, at that point the Commission as a whole could decide on the general rules. Thats a brief synopsis but the basic idea even though more was involved in it.

I do feel as though we need to work together as a whole (talking about SO/MO/PRO/J here) so we can get on the same page and become a stronger base, it seems like we are breaking apart more and more and only thinking about ourselves which has to stop in we want to succeed and continue racing.

However people may feel about the people listed on the BoD election please remember this is your time to vote, if you don't like what I am saying then tell me, and try and persuade me to look at things in a different way, I am open to change my thoughts and some probably need to be changed, just show me good reasons to do so.

Your vote counts, remember just because 4 seats are open does not mean you have to vote for 4 people, you can vote for as little as 1 on your ballot, but please vote regardless.

[DeanFHobart]

Just as an FYI..... Seattle Outboard Association runs Stock, Mod and Pro classes at all of their races. However, it is a Full Day of racing, usually from about 10 am to 6 pm. Lots of heats all days. But we all love Boat Racing, so watching lots of heats of Boat Racing is a good thing.

All of the folks officiating at the races in Region 10 are very dedicated, as is with in all of the Regions. Thank You For Your Dedicated Work.

Best Regards To All,

Dean Hobart..............................

[Howie Nichols]

I did forget to reply to Dan. If the offer of assistance is still open, I would be happy to bring it up again at the next BoD get together (I've got at least 2 left depending on the election results) and see what direction they want to head in regarding the website and Social Media. If you want to send me an email with some bullet points or brief outline on what we could do I will share that as well. I could see things like cost being a question asked. My email is apba113@gmail.com

As another point and it may be sticky, I would like to talk to the folks that have left APBA and see if they would be willing to tell us why, is it cost?, is it the rules?, Is it personal conflicts? Is it lack of respect or attention? Is it lack of control? In other words why did you leave, what resolution could there be even if its huge to get you to return. The fractioning of organizations while good in the short term can only hurt us all in the long run. I doubt everyone will run back to APBA but if we can establish an open line of communication and perhaps work towards a solution or solutions that would be a great start and make for better racing to all.

[csh-2z]

Fred, It would be nice to see you again. Many of us have been wondering. Any way we can get you back in?

[fhafer]

John, Sam is going to run again next year. Working on the details. Going to make sure those pickle forks are WELL rounded!

[Howie Nichols]

Look forward to the Hafer return, 53Z has been missed, even his Dad

[csh-2z]

Chuck, Just because there are a lot of classes between the categories doesn't mean a club has to run them all. Clubs should choose which classes they will schedule based on their needs. I think it would be in the best interest of clubs to schedule specific classes they wish to promote, much like SSOA has been doing. If you're not specific, people will keep bringing whatever they have and try to get some of their friends to field a step-up or scrounge enough equipment together to piece together a class. Doing that race after race is not helping our overall situation. It is perpetuating the problem we have with too many classes and poor quality racing. It is not easy to tell someone that their class is dead but sometimes it has to be done.

As far as Category combination, I am opposed to that. I believe it is a defeatist attitude that subscribes to the concept that what we have now is the best it will ever be so deal with it. NO, I believe that we can build this sport up to heights we can't conceive at this point. I can't believe that we can't find 50 people in my state of NC to race boats. There are 5,000,000 in this state! We just have not done what it takes to grow this sport. Our goal should be to make every category self sustaining in every active region. I'll continue to address this later, I have to go to work.
John

[chuck w]

Thank you for the responses. I agree it should be up to the club.
It seems the problem is There are just too many classes and a possible solution is a combination. this might result in elimination heats. If there is extra time then we should just run more heats.
I personally wouldn't tell someone who has equipment to run a certain class that it's a dead class. I would encourage people to get there friends involved and show up with whatever to run. This is a sport that is declining and we need people showing up ready to race. It opens more doors.
I know This is just skimming the surface of some of the problems happening. I am here to have fun. Just making some suggestions for our sport for those listening and enjoy reading about boat racing like I do.
I will continue on to let this sport keep me young like the 70-80 year olds I have been out there battling with.

Chuck Williams 184n

[hshawwpba]

Mr. Runne I guess if you own a business that makes anyone who does a great person to vote on the board well over the years I have had the opportunity to watch 1 of your great adventures (the Side Winder Engine Program) it has only lost over 1 million $ and the engines continue to have delivery issues and reliability issues. I also remember you supported the Crown Project---- Sorry don't wait for my vote !

[Racerkyle20]

Wrong Runne brother Howard. John is not apart of Sidewinder, LLC.

Sidewinder reliability issues? You must not pay attention as Sidewinder motors are winning nationals in the A and B classes regularly. Howard did you lose $1 million? Then what is it to you. Are you starting your own motor company to save outboard racing? Must have missed that at the last SOA meeting.

Sidewinder is also the ONLY American company producing outboard racing engines. So maybe we should be finding a way to support them and not bash them.

[sponsonhead]

Mr. Runne I guess if you own a business that makes anyone who does a great person to vote on the board well over the years I have had the opportunity to watch 1 of your great adventures (the Side Winder Engine Program) it has only lost over 1 million $ and the engines continue to have delivery issues and reliability issues. I also remember you supported the Crown Project---- Sorry don't wait for my vote !

Howard, if I had a little money, I'd be happy to buy you a big ol' box of commas and periods in order to make your rants a little more coherent...but you probably wouldn't know what to do with them anyway.


R-19

[csh-2z]

Howard, as Kyle mentioned I have no business connection with Racing Outboards or the Sidewinder project. I realize however it may appear from the outside to be the case as I have always been a strong supporter of the project. I do own two Sidewinders and have been racing them for many years. I have the 1st production 20 cu." motor they made and still run it to this day. Certainly they have had numerous issues throughout the years but they have worked through them, and if you ask any Sidewinder owner, they would tell you that when they did have a problem with their motor the customer support by Racing Outboards has gone above and beyond any other outboard motor manufacturer to take care of the issue promptly.

As far as the Crown Project, yes I supported the effort to improve APBA's membership slide. I am as disappointed as you that it didn't produce the results expected. We can play the blame game all we want but I don't think we know the whole story. Based on what I've seen throughout many years in APBA and the history of our leadership, there is a better than even chance, that APBA did not put in the effort required to make that project successful. That of course is my opinion having no knowledge of who was responsible for what tasks. As far as your vote, I didn't really expect it. I know who you're going to vote for. Regardless of your incessant complaining over the years, you're are going to vote for the status quo. How's that been working for you?

With all due respect, John Runne

[stockc]

Hello John,

I want all Yamatos to cool at the height specs of all classes within the APBA. This can be simply accomplished in multiple ways at a cost significantly lower than an average repair of a stuck motor. I'm at a loss as to the rationale of why performance enhancing blue printing is allowed but any efforts to get adequate water for cooling is taboo. Before I cast my vote I would like to hear your position on this issue.

Ken McMurphy

[Matt Dagostino]

Great question Ken. I was just talking today with Chairman Brewster about that very issue as my daighter has a 321 on order. The SORC was hasty in approving this model 321 before getting the bugs worked out and now we have a major cooling issue!! i am not sure John Runne as a BOD candidate can answer this but John Runne was on the SORC and voted to approve this new model engine could maybe shed some light on this important issue???

[adamallen]

Matt, this problem could be easily solved with a propshaft depth that makes sense. Maybe start at 1" and I'm guessing these problems go away.

[GrandpaRacer]

A simple rule change could be to allow no changes to the power head but allow racers of Yamatos to get cooling water from the lake to the power head's water inlet anyway they want! After about a month or two the best solution will be obvious.

[csh-2z]

Nobody on the SORC saw this issue coming about. This was a complete shock to us all. I have not done any research to this point to resolve this issue. However I agree we need answers. I'm not sure yet if the exact cause has been identified, nor do I know if any documented testing has been done to determine at what height we can be reasonably assured the motor will pump properly. I will certainly follow-up in order to get whatever answers are available, however as previously stated, I'm not sure an answer is readily available.

Matt, I did vote to approve this motor, and it was hastily done. We had some very extensive testing by Joe Pater and all indications were that the preformance of the 321 was on par with the top running 302's. The information we had from our Yamato representatives was that the 302 is history and would no longer be produced. The 321 model was the replacement motor and our only option going forward. During the many hours of discussion it was suggested that we may be moving too quickly to approve this model for the following season. However as you know often times there is 1 or 2 statements that can persuade even the staunchist detractors. By the end of the conversation when it came time to vote, in spite of my apprehension, I voted YEA.

John Runne

[Matt Dagostino]

I know we have hi-jacked Johnny's thread but what the hell, Hydroracer is all about voicing opinions!! I was on the SORC as a Commissioner years ago who lobbied and got the height in CSH lowered to 3/4inch from 1/2inch to help with burning up engines and assist the 302 in becoming more competitive with the aging Yamato 102. The 302 could not run consistently at 1/2inch without burning up and now at 3/4inch both engines pump water fine and are 'more equal' if that makes any sense. I tried to pass similar rules for the 20ssh class a couple years later but certain Midwest people in the gallery cried foul and that by lowering the 20ssh height to 3/4inch to match CSH the 40 year old Yamato 80 wouldn't be as competitive with the new available 302! Hence it did not pass and the 302 can not run at 1/2inch without fear of burning it up! My point is the 321 is even worse than the Model 302 at pushing water through the motor!! I was at the SORC meeting when the 321 was rushed through the process and approved. Now it is the SORC's responsibility to serve it's members and identify the problem and solve it!! Perhaps lowering the 20ssh height to 3/4inch is now in play in 2017??? This is a technical matter and hopefully TJ and the other technical folks can get this worked out so our members will be served! I for one would be in favor of going to 3/4inch in 20ssh as a start! Just sayin.

[Big Don]

Matt I was part of the Midwest group that made several points at that Seattle National meeting, I also think you were focused on those 80 engines overheating, the same 40 year old engines that you have been a proponent of until recently it appears...We personally did not have a pumping issue with our 80 engine at 1/2 inch. You had 70 drivers running 20 with Yamato 80's at the time and you were about to penalize all of them. Remember those are the same Yamato 80 guys you supported when the same Midwest guys took the bull by the horn and did the petition that you supported. The same engine a year ago you were concerned about but now you want to say, the 40 year old 80 engine.

Lower them all to 1 inch, I could care less, the same guys will win. We'll just make them all buy or rework all their props. As I think about this, let's do it. We have not gone the 302 route yet and we have 3 of them sitting in our trailer. It will level the playing field and we will be back equal to Pater, Holt, Peters, Lewis, etc. Oh and guess what, lower them and the 20 Sidewinder will be the engine of choice. Then what will you do? Or should we lower them to 1 1/2 inches. You see, anything we do, has other implications. Also find it interesting that you say, you would be in favor of going to 3/4 in 20 as a start. Sure seems like your only focusing on your trailer box, why not do it for 20 & C at the same time? Or is there not a overheating issue in C?

I would also argue that the 321 was not rushed through. We had a top Yamato driver do extensive testing and we waited a year. We also had drivers run the 321 in the 300 class during that same year. The 321 engine is the only engine available. We knew there may be some issue, there always is. Unfortunately we were in a bad spot. If we had not approved, you would be on here complaining about that.

[GrandpaRacer]

The Yamato 80 has two water pick up holes which allows it to work at 1/2 inch. Why not allow two water pick up holes on all Yamatos. Or as I said before allow any way to get cooling water to the power head.

[JanShaw]

Jan Shaw has been a member of Seattle Outboard Association for 48 years and APBA since 1975. SOA Secretary from 1980-1990. SOA Board of Directors 1990-1995. She was Region 10 secretary from 1998-2012, and a Region Chairman from 2012-2014, and then elected to the APBA Board from 2014 to present. Since 2000 she has belonged to the majority of clubs in Region 10 and has taken an active role in many of these clubs. Jan has been a race chairman in Region 10 for over 10 years, even resurrecting old race sites, such as the Kenmore Slough race. Jan has been a lead scorer for Unlimited, Unlimited Light, West Coast Offshore, F1, OPC, Inboard, Vintage, Stock, Mod, PRO, Junior classes, and now trainer for new scorers and timers. Jan has been lead scorer for 2 Nationals, many divisional, and North American Championships, she is also a timer for many record races in Region 10, and has belonged to the National Scoring Committee for many years. In 2015, she was the recipient of the National APBA Scoring Award at the Chicago National Meeting. As a APBA board member, the committee she was assigned to lead was the APBA Archives. She has learned how to copy and preserve old documents, and is currently working with our local library system, to get old rule books, and reference books into the National library system, making them more available to our members, anywhere in the United States.
Jan’s dedication to helping grow and promote racing in Region 10 and assist other regions when asked lends to her commitment to bring competence to the APBA Board Position. SOA has a good record with driving schools and using marketing tools to entice new families to come racing. Jan helps get new scorers and timers started each year. She leads the Region 10 scoring committee, helping all the scorers in her region take the tests necessary to score at the races. She has shown open minded decision making during her current APBA Board time, while keeping safety as her main focus on issues in all categories. Your vote to support re-election is appreciated.

[Ram4x4]

I know 2 names on the ballot...2 people I've seen involved in discussions here. I don't know any other outlet or means to see or discuss with the others what their positions are on things. I just went to the APBA site and can't find anything.

Granted, I'm new. I haven't been around for years to rub elbows with those who've been in the sport most of their life.

But, I do have an investment in this sport-- time, money, and commitment. I WANT this sport to succeed. I WANT it to be around for years to come and I WANT to vote. The ballot says "vote for no more than 4". I can't vote for 4. I can vote for a maximum of 2 only because I've seen what they've had to say (but don't confuse that to mean I will vote for both, I'm not going to say).

It's great the bios were included with the ballot, but I'd also like to see a statement from each candidate to let me know what they see as the challenges and their plans for the sport going forward. We clearly don't have an "official" media outlet to get this information....

[csh-2z]

You're right, the APBA social site is not attracting anybody, that is a good part of the reason I'd like to get Dan Lawrence involved with APBA. FYI, Dan is the creator of Hydroracer. Hydroracer has been a great asset to boat racing but it is not the official site of the APBA. And we need that official site to be alive and attractive for official announcements, news, results and discussion of the issues. It's very frustrating to go to the APBA social site 5 - 6 times a day to see how little activity there is. I thought by now, all of the BoD candidates would have at least posted something on there. I was also expecting to get at a few questions but nothing. Very disappointing, it's a good thing we have Hydroracer but the vast majority of membership doesn't participate here either. Just a small group of the same people that have always been here.

[Ram4x4]

AHA! I discovered my mistake...it's "APBA Social" at the very top. My mistake, but I've been a computer geek my entire adult life and I just get used to some terms that become standard lexicon...like "Forums" instead of "Social". Probably looked right at it and never made the mental connection.

So, after looking through the 5 posts in there for the election, I have one other potential candidate who at least posted his views. So now, potentially three I could vote for...

[GrandpaRacer]

There maybe a legal advantage that Hydroracer is not part of APBA. We can say anything here and the lawyers can not tie it back to anything that APBA maybe accused of endorsing.

[Big Don]

There are a few more post over on the APBA social site for those looking for more info.