Castor Oil

[guedo499]

To the many, many smarter people than me: Why do we used Castor Oil with methanol? I've searched around Al Gore's WWW and can't quite find any "that's why" statements. Does it catalyze quicker/better/more consistently than synthetics?

Curiosity...

Thanks, John.

[tcf284]

i would tend to say that regular oil will thin to much and not be capable of lubricating when mix with methanol castor is extremely thicker than standard 2 stroke oils , but I'm just speculating

[deverhart1]

Regular 2 cycle oil will not stay mixed in alcohol. It settles out. Castor bean oil will stay mixed. Now the newer synthetics made for castor also work. Some have different additives and will protect from rust and some won't. This is the reason some pro racers have to fog their engines after racing and some don't. Hope I've helped
David Everhart S52

[David Weaver]

Too expensive potentially to search for a replacement!

[T Chance]

To add to what has already been said. Petroleum oil will not mix, dissolve, go into solution, or however you want to describe it with methanol. But castor oil does. It is also a superior lubricant. In World War One the fighter planes used castor oil and as it got flung about into the air the pilots ingested it and all had diarrhea. In the 50's the major sports car racing teams (i.e. Ferrari, Jaguar, etc.) used castor oil in the crankcase because of its excellent lubrication qualities. Castrol Motor oil was originally castor based. So the answer is because it works and it's good. I use both natural and synthetic castor in my racing engines.

[Bob Rusnak]

Yes, that caster oil is a great lubricant. The only downfall was if the engine was not cleaned it would solidify sticking up everything inside. It sure smelled sweet when it burned.

[Yellowjacket]

The reason that castor oil is a good 2 cycle lubricant is that it has a very high surface tension and provides very good boundary layer lubrication. Even when mixed with fuel it provides good lubrication.

[JBM]

All of the above plus, it lubricates the your boat, Kevlar, and crew members too

[Matt Dagostino]

When i drove for Wes Jones and got that castor on my kevlars and life jacket the smell never went away!! Good stuff and it puts off a sweet smell that never leaves your cloths!

[RLR]

looking to put a scratch and smell packet for the winter time.

[tcf284]

maybe work on making it into a mans cologne lol

[dwhitford]

I use a blend of castor & synthetic oil, 1% synthetic in the overall methanol-based mix. Bud Wiget taught me how to mix fuel. He mixed 1% of Union Carbide LB550X synthetic for all of us who raced out of his Lakeland Marine Supply boat shop. The UCON synthetic had zero rust-preventive quality. I run my engine on a petroleum-oil-rich mix of gasoline & and oil after every race. Doing this purges the entire engine from carbs to exhaust, an absolute must-do with any nitro in the racing mix.

Bud, who was a Cal Tech trained petroleum expert for Shell Oil b4 he moved to Lakeland told me that Union Carbide developed synthetic oil -- a long-chain polymer -- for the Army during the Aleutian campaign when engines were freezing up and wouldn't start in that cold winter of 1942.

I'll add that Chuck Fridell, Bud's lead mechanic and a top-notch B-Alky hydro racer in his own right, and Bill Troyer, Chuck's VB Koenig driver in the early 1970s, tried running wholly synthetic oil, Bud's UCON LB550X. Bud had selected that drum of oil after researching UCON's catalog of synthetics most nearly like castor oil. That was b4 widespread usage of CD ignitions, and Chuck & Bill were looking to minimize plug fouling. They never had an engine failure, but they pulled the Koenig down for routine maintenance in the early '70s. Chuck told me, "Everything looked dry as toast", he said. He & Bill went back to Bud's old recipe 5% castor + 1% UCON synthetic.

[brboatbuilder]

From a long ago ME class in "Bearing and Lubrication" I recall that oils change in viscosity with the pressure they are subjected to. E.g., a typical bushing type bearing could have a localized thin film hydrodynamic pressue of 10,000 psi or more (not an error in typing) between the journal and the bearing. Under this pressure the vicosity increases dramatically, however the viscosity ( measured in SSU) change for castor oil is several times greater than for petroleum based oil. Consequently less tendency for metal to metal contact with all its inherent failures. You can invision why castor oil would work so great in an automotive type engine with all plain journal bearings. Unfortunately castor oil has a strong tendency to oxodize at room temperature and make a mess. gummy mess, not unlike the top of the cooking oil

[David Weaver]

I have good success with Maxima 927. It is degummed castor with some synthetic added. You do not get the gummy mess and the "insides" are spot less after racing. Downside, it is not cheap. But, it is cheaper than pistons!!

[dwhitford]

I've been using it recently too, David, because I haven't found a source yet for good-ol' Baker's AA in the 8-pound cans. Bud had an entire drum of Baker's castor oil in the drum rack at the back of Lakeland Marine Supply. Maybe Baker's is outta business ... ?

We mixed a lot of model-airplane fuel in Bud's shop in the late 1960s too, lotsa nitro! And green-dyed fuel for the Shakeshafts.

[T Chance]

To Dave Whitford: There is no more Baker's AA as the company went out of business years ago. It is now called SIG and is available in plastic one gallon containers. I have used it, It works, as it is the same old stuff and cheaper than Klotz, Blendzall, or Maxima 927. You can find it at sigmfg.com. Speaking of Shakeshaft, Henry put me on to the source.

[dwhitford]

Thanx, Tim, for the source. While I've recently used the 927 without bad circumstance (recommended by a relative newbie 125cc racer), I feel somewhat outta control by not knowing quite the percentages of castor oil and synthetics in it. I'm old school and want to return to what I know works well ... especially considering the failures that some running the current Italian engines have experienced from running too little oil.

[Smitty]

Was told long ago by Ron Anderson that most alternatives to castor run away from hot spots, castor does not.

[DiGia54D]

a good amount of guys are using 927. I usually get it from someone at a USTS race when we mix fuel at races. Its not the cheapest stuff but like Weaver said, cheaper than pistons

[David Weaver]

We used to purchase large quantity of medical grade castor oil from the private pharmacy in Peru, Ill while we attended races at Depue each year. Would purchase in gallon quantities, enough to last another year. Switched to 927 when we switched from German to Italian engines.