New 321 motor?

[Fastjack]

Jack moved up from AXH and ASH to 25 SSH - this season . With a limited field he has only run 5 or 6 times in the 25 . This weekend he ran 302 SSH for the first time , we set the boat up in the pits before the race and he finished in 2nd in his first race . This is in a good field of new and seasoned( 50 + years of seat time ) drivers. Region 1 now has 6-7 regular entries with 2 new drivers this weekend. Easy class to start in - The motor came complete - kick out - steering bar - prop hardware -ready to race..

[Harold8]

So what happens to the 302SSH class when the 321 comes in? Is it now 302/321ssh and what do you do with everyone that has a 302 if the 321 proves to be a better/faster box stock motor?

[DiGia54D]

Great question!

[Joe J]

Tom, I think you are completely wrong. With this class a newbie can buy a motor OUT OF THE BOX, find a boat and have a somewhat competitive rig. Anytime a new driver gets a stock rig, they run in the back and get discouraged, how much $$ have we all spent with Dewald chasing 1 mph?

I am going to attempt to build this class here in northern CA next year, and there will be one in my trailer.

Joe

[deeougee]

The whole 302/321 thing has been screwed up by the US distributor. Joe Pater has done all the comprehensive testing with both motors and they are essentially even at this point. Someone has to make a decision soon regarding the engine of choice so people can get on with buying an engine. There are a lot of established racers running this class with rookies. Why??? Let's be honest here, it's because in 20 and C a stock motor is anything but stock. I personally have no interest in running 302 SSH but it works for a lot of people and it is fun to watch. In the midwest 9 different winners in 10 races this year and some of those wins were rookies.

[csh12M]

I really hope we can get to one motor - a big part of what makes 302SSH great is its simplicity - "motor of choice" and "parity" are words that should not apply - in my opinion. Even it the motors were the same racers perception would be to imply they are different and one superior to the other. I STRONGLY believe we need to migrate the class ASAP, to 321

Offer a 302 - 321 conversion and make the class 321 only next year. The SORC could develop a sliding scale to help with the conversion cost. Anyone who bought a sealed 302 in 2015 will get 80% of the conversion cost covered, anyone who bought one in 2014 gets 50% covered and anyone who bought one in 2013 gets 25% of the cost covered. I have talked with a lot of the 302SSH racers and they agree. Some including myself would just buy the new 321 and I would break my seals on the 302 for C or 20.

The sooner we due this the better as the shortage of 302 at the moment make them desirable for C and 20. I hope this issue is addressed this year, frankly I am not sure why we are selling the sealed 302 at the moment, since we know we can no longer get them.

[Harold8]

Why a sliding scale? The class hasn't been around that long so give everyone the same rate to up grade to the 321 and keep the class going. The lower rate may keep some from upgrading and just converting their motor to a c or 20. Any 302s turned in could be sold at the traded rate to those that want to purchase one .

[deeougee]

Totally agree. The 321 is the only new motor available so that's exactly where the class needs to go. With the season winding down hopefully the decision can be made sooner rather than later so everyone can start preparing for next year. I know people who have been waiting to get in on the class for the last 2 years but have been waiting to see how the engine situation plays out before they make a move. It's things like this that really hinder our ability to bring people into the sport.

[Mike Wright]

When does the us distributor. AnyExpect to get the 321 motors and how many.

[Hutch06]

The U.S. Distributor has 321s sitting in customs right now due to EPA hold-up. There is not much more information out there other than this right now.

[hoosier]

Tom. I totally agree with you , we don't need a class that draws 12 competitors with close competition each race. Those old guys should be at the bingo parlor or the conv.home anyhow !!!

[Ram4x4]

So, let's assume for a moment that the 321 becomes the new sealed class engine and everyone gets their conversion rate, or keeps their 302 for other things. Now, the real question, how long before we have to do this all over again? I'm asking because it seems like Yamato is constantly upgrading their designs and coming out with new engines. Perfect for them and what they do, bad for us and a sealed class if the engine keeps changing every couple of years.

I think drivers are going to lose interest in a sealed class if they have to keep buying a new engine for it so frequently, and let's face it, a sealed Yamato isn't cheap.

Are there other brands/makes of engines that could be used that can be expected to be available for more than the next couple of years?

[dholt]

The 302 came out in the mid 90's. So a 20 year lifespan for an engine is pretty darn good. Can't expect much more than that.

[Ram4x4]

YIKES!, then I stand corrected! I thought it was only 2-3 years old. Maybe I am confusing the time frame with the creation of the 302 class....

[DiGia54D]

YIKES!, then I stand corrected! I thought it was only 2-3 years old. Maybe I am confusing the time frame with the creation of the 302 class....

Yes, the class 302ssh is only a few years old. The New 321 will be around for a while. As for Customs and EPA hold ups...who knows how long this will be an issue

[csh12M]

Why a sliding scale - you have to factor in some form of depreciation. I know that racers think nothing should depreciate ever, but that is not practical. The SORC probably does not have enough $ to cover everyone. I am one of the first purchasers and have raced the motor several years so I have accrued more value from the 302 and therefore should have to chip in more of my money to convert. Someone that bought the motor this year and accrued less value (one season) should have to chip in less. The sealed class is MUCH cheaper than C or 20 when you factor in the "cost to win" every one of these rigs can and has won. The TCO "total cost of ownership" or better yet the TCW "total cost of win" is a fraction of any other class in any kneel down category but.....the owner needs to factor in semi yearly maintenance cost or upgrade cost (cost to convert your 302 to 321). This is typical in the sealed kart classes as well.

This is the coolest class in Stock because it is Stock, but we also need leadership to keep the class sealed and correct. Our other classes have become so convoluted because we never want to obsolete someones motor and think that all equipment has should have an unlimited life span. SORC needs to have the courage to treat the class differently and do what is best long term for the class - cut over to the 321. If someone wants to break the seals and not make the upgrade, so be it - no worries. We have to manage this class differently than the category has in the past. Lets at least learn from the past 30 years and not make the same mistakes with this sealed class. "parity" and "motor of choice" can not/should not apply in this class

[reed28n]

The 302 was introduced and we have had 18 model number changes since. There are subtle differences over the years 303, 304, 305 .......318,319,320 carb link, exhaust tower snout etc..... the motors we currently run are not all 302's. The 321 is a model number change but the first one that has some parts that are perceived as advantages. The SORC should have not introduced this model change as a new motor when in fact it could have been completely ignored and allowed to race under current rules as a manufacture's update. We dont even know yet if the new model is faster, slower, or better on any level. We should let it race until there is a difference. Until then it is all speculation and perception.

[csh12M]

Scott, are you saying that for 20 and C? If so I agree. If you are saying that relative to 302SSH I totally disagree. Speculation and perception are things that dont and should not apply in 302SSH. This past weekend Jared Rykse got in the MHRA Racer School scow that we train our new guys with and won - he banged two great starts. This class is great because it is EVEN and all motors and rigs are the same. The only difference between racers is the ability to start and drive. As soon as 302 and 321 are in the same sealed class speculation and perception would be introduced and that would be a big step back.

[65R]

Here is a little secret to new racers, I hear a lot of emphasis on stock motors not being stock and in order to win you need to do all these modifications. Well, the motor has nothing to do with why the same people win. They win because they have great boats, great propellers, perfect setup and they test, test, test. The motor has nothing to do with it. At the nationals this year, I won my elimination heat in CSH with a sealed motor, the only modification was a milled head and profiled gear case. If you want to win you test, A LOT! Yes it is a ton of work but that's why the same people are out front.

[csh12M]

Nathan - that is partially true. I do not test at all. Not one session in the last ten years, but I do go through my motors every year and make sure they are very blueprinted. You can run at the top without testing. BUT, lets look at both of these premises. To run at the top you either have to test, test, test, which is TIME - or you have to work motors for maximum horsepower, also TIME, MONEY and KNOWLEDGE. The sealed 302 class takes both of these requirements out of the equation. It truly lets people participate on a level playing field. This lets Stock racing be a hobby, not a lifestyle. We should not change every class to this format, but it is important to have one like this. We will have 20-24 at our races next year. We added two new name racers from our drivers school to the class this year who are just waiting on motors. I feel that 30 at a race will be a real possibility within the next two years. The motors are now the hold up, and settling on one motor has to be a priority.

[Ram4x4]

If motors didn't matter, no one would be spending the time and money on them they do.

The only things variable in 302 are the hull, set up and the driver. Certainly a case could probably be made that a certain hull will be faster than another, but further restricting the class to one specific hull design is not feasible.

I have yet to see a 302 race where any one boat was clearly out pacing the others by any significant degree.

Not having to take my gear case and have it massaged, not having to have the head shaved, or buy 2-3 expensive props (or pay to have them tweaked) is a big draw to get someone into racing.

Sure, a sealed 302 (or 321, depending on what happens) isn't as cheap as buying a used 102 for 20 or CSH, but once obtained, it's quite literally a bolt it on, gas it up and go affair.

Newbies are inundated enough with learning to drive, to set up a boat, etc they don't need to get hammered with the details of prop, gear case or motor tweaking at the outset. Certainly we hope they will in the future, but to start off, sealed is a great and easy entry class that also has the benefit of another class other drivers can get in by simply having the motor.

Lastly, it sure is popular, even for the veterans. It's been the largest class at every race I've been to this year.