B class NBRA

[Hydro doc]

B class in the NBRA has not grown. The entries at the Natls. were stock 80's, which is a legal B, but it turns out to be a rerun of the A class less restricted 302. This class called 350 hydro in APBA is a popular class, but not in NBRA. If we can not have a good field of honest B motors, I'm in favor of doing away the class or change the rules. We should require a external tune pipe for the Y80. The y80 is a great cheap motor that will push a hydro in the low 70'smph. This class is similar to the C mod class with boats and weights of equal size. Our B Mod runs the same top end speed as our C Mod but has less acceleration. As we look to the future, I'm in favor of running three heats of our biggest and more popular classes and removing those that look like and run the same speed as other classes. As a safety issue, I will try again to require paddles in boats.

[Art K]

Totally in favor of requiring paddles, and a 3 heat rule of some sort.
Art K

[Dave M]

I am in favor of eliminating all classes that have less than 5 boats at any race over the course of the year. By eliminating, I think you should look at combining into another class of equal or close speeds and call it good. I don't want to have so many classes (like the other) that the schedule takes all day. I like the 4 maybe 5 hour program we have.

And in the end, you MUST write out your proposal with a good thought process, including all references, and reasons validated, then submit it for review at the required deadline. Then we can discuss at the National meeting. The changes suggested should NOT be self serving in function or design.

[Hydro doc]

I've sent the USTS. Rules to one of our directors. It's simple, but still requires a timer for all championship heats. I prefer to use the winner of the last heat as the tie breaker, which would eliminate a timer and lowering the cost of putting on a nationals. I like the idea of letting those in a class with more than twelve boats run two heats. You draw for your heat competitors for each heat, you run those heats and a final heat. Add the points to get your winner. If you take the time and money to come to the natls., you should get to run two heats. In APBA, you get to run two, and if you qualify, two more. This plan is the middle of the road.

[Hydro doc]

Three heat racing
12 or less-allboatsrace three heats, winner is high point and in case of a tie, the lowest time(or winner of the last heat if there is a tie). See above if you have more than than 12 boats.

[Hydro doc]

Dave, suggested combining classes, and we could run the B in the C. You would have to find the weight the C would have to weigh to equal the B. Just guessing , my thought was forty pounds. Since we are talking about a 70mph B with a pipe hanging out side the boat, the best weight is 420lb. Rick has to add 5 lb, Braxton is 10 lb over. Now add 40lb to make it equal and you have a 460 lb C Mod. Hydro. NBRA weight for a C Mod Hydro is 435. It's really hard to fit a different motor in the same class. APBA added 25lbs to Rick's OMC so he could not compete in the 350 hydro class. They only wanted one motor to dominate.

[johnml390]

Personally... I believe the classes should be left alone. Leave the B class as is and when some show up. They are good to go. If not... no biggie. Just don't run it. If the folks with stock 80's want to run B.. Let them. No harm, no foul. Eliminating classes no matter what the participation scale is has always been a silly thing in my eyes. No need to fix issues that aren't there. Some classes have more participation than others. Just how it goes. We are planning to be back in both B Hydro and B Runabout in NBRA very soon. So this change would directly effect me. Since I too will be running the C classes.. If they were combined, why would I even bother with the B? We don't have the issue of too many classes on our race schedule so let's not try to fix an issue that isn't there. That B and C entry fee of mine will be helpful for the clubs hosting the races. Leave it be.

[PROPDOC]

John, I agree with you. Why keep meddling with the class structures from year to year. If enough boats of class show up then race the class if only two boats show then the class is off of the schedule. The B classes tend to be a second or third class for almost everyone so its not like anyone is going to be without a class to run if we don't run B at an event. Doc, please stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just leave the classes alone for at least one year.

[Hydro doc]

The reality of having two good B's in NBRA is not what you want in a class. We have tried to make a class but no one wants to put the money and time to build a B. Yes, you have one. The stock 80 runs in the mid 60's, while the B will run much faster which doesn't give you competitive racing. No B's showed up at our natls. Unless we get commitment of at least 5 legitimate B's, I would suggest we run three heats of the classes that have the most numbers. When you go to sponsor and ask for the money we want, putting 4-5 boats on the water is disappointing. We are heading the right direction, getting the best sponsors in the field of outboard racing and putting on a Hell of a show.

[DiGia54D]

There really is not that many B mods at all in any org. We have about (10 ) 80 mod motors that sitting in basements just in the north east. A few down south. Makes no sense on why they don't sell or use anymore. Pretty basic Mod class that didn't cost much to make.

[Dave M]

How about combining B with the Mod25 class ? Neither have enough entries to make the race look good seperate.

[johnml390]

Class structure isn't an issue in the NBRA. If this matter comes up for vote.. I vote against the change. It truly is pointless and would be a change just for the sake of changing. The only classes that would potentially even be worth combining in our association would be 25MH and CMH. Literally the same boats in each class in just about every race this year and most if not all of them have no set up changes outside of weight removal. But that's a different story entirely.

The point of the matter is this... Someone running B with a stock 80 is their personal decision. I know for a fact that a few of the B class this year that have been stock 80s are using the class as a means of more seat time outside of A Hydro. And some because they aren't comfortable with the large field in A Hydro so they run B knowing it won't be as big and they have a little chance of success with it not being a more popular class at the moment. If this silly change were to happen... You've taken boats off the water for those who aren't ready to be amongst the full fields in A Hydro, you've basically taken money away from any club whom enough Bs show up to race for, etc.

As stated previously.. We in NBRA do not have "too long" of a program seeing as our class schedule is so small and short anyways. LEAVE THE CLASS STRUCTURE ALONE.. We have plenty of large fields and exciting racing that a few smaller fields aren't going to hurt the show. B Hydro has had more entires than E Runabout this year.. Maybe we should combine ER and SER? No. CR has had terrible participation this year and it is already basically combined with BR... These changes don't help like you would assume.

Fact of the matter is that it's much smarter if we just leave it alone until some show up.

Leave it be.


PS: All for 3 heat racing. Now THATS not a bad idea.

[runabout333]

What to do,,, a tough decision... Back years ago,, the "B" class was a 20 c.I. Hot Rod.. The Hot Rod mostly died with the inclusion of
the Y-80 as a B-mod motor..
The 25 mod.,,, the APBA name and the B-1,, the AOF name, was a separate class and the two motors were the Merc. of a 22 c.I.?? and the OMC 22 c.I.?? I am not up to date on the legal motors for the NBRA 25 mod class. In saying all of this,,, just my opinion,,, the 20 c.I. Y-80 is the only B- motor that could remotely keep up with the 25 mods.. Not meaning any trash talk at all.. Somewhere in a lot of garages, there's got to be tons of Hot Rod
B parts stored away. But,, is it compatible to try to build a motor that will not run out front??? Would it not be fair to leave the Y-80 as a mod with an
expansion chamber and all other motors using a megaphone type exhaust... Does that level the playing field?? Decisions,,, Decisions..

[johnml390]

NBRA 25 Mod Hydro is basically a secondary C Mod Hydro. Modified Yamato 102-302 with a certain foot, any exhaust, and a lower weight limit. That's it.

Our B Hydro is a combination of APBA's 25MH (or B1 Hydro/400ccMH), BMH (350ccMH), and 25SSH. Stock 80s are allowed to run as a legal engine in the class as well. They are just at a disadvantage not having the allowed modifications.

It very much just needs to be left alone. Trying to fix an issue with our class structure/certain classes in general at this point is only going to hurt things. And too many folks can't see that for some reason. We actually have plenty of Bs (Not a TON by any means but still) in NBRA but getting ALL of us to a race the last few years just hasn't been working out. Leave it alone and wait for us all to show up at some point. If watching 5 stock 80s hit the water in the mean time is that much of a bother for anyone. Don't watch it. Let them race and enjoy themselves.

[johnml390]

Basically... There is absolutely NO issue here. Just low to no participation as of late. That's it! Simple as that.

LEAVE IT ALONE. Haha.

[TaraCook13]

I agree with John. Just leave it alone. There are several people that have B's that just didn't get to make any races this year. I think the best thing to do is to just stop messing with classes. The B class is not hurting anybody. So why try and change it? If your gonna do away with B hydro because of participation you might as well do away with C runabout also!