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I see this thread wandering away from the original topic as they all seem to. In one last attempt to steer it back a bit I think we need to define what a rookie really is here. Since I started racing in 1960 I have seen more than one guy come along with little or no experience in any kind of boat. They jump into a 70 or 80 mph machine (with no brakes) and think all they have to do is point it and squeeze it. If their first experience is good they think this boat stuff is pretty easy and it emboldens them to go harder the next time out. Fortunately the aspect of milling before the race serves to shuffle these guys to the back so they are out of the way from the beginning. Then they get tired of running back in the slop and push the clock harder. Now they are toward the front, but maybe they jumped, maybe not. Whichever it is they often wind up in the way because proper lines around the race course are still a mystery to them. Experienced drivers who know the way around the course don't know where these guys are going to go and conflicts are highly likely. Then at the end of the heat they may be excited and wound up and come into the pits too hot and run up on the shore with all it's consequences. THIS IS NOT FICTION. And it's not the whole story either, but enough is enough.
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I might be alone here, but that is part of why the sport will not grow. We need to embrace those folks, not ram what class they should run into them. A good driver will know what to do when there is a rookie on the course, and take appropiate action to stay out of the way. If you are a good driver, that rookie will be following you around the course at the start and want to learn from you.Originally posted by pops67g View Post
I am not trying to be offensive here, but I really don't agree with your assesment. I think that is a growth inhibitor. It has not grown since 1960....
I would be the first person to steer a 200 pound guy into a Tahotsu rig in the NBRA. In fact I have reccomended it often while at the races. The class is huge there. And there are rookies running it. In fact a rookie won the Nat's in the SER (850CCR) class with one last year. Not saying luck was'nt on his side, but a win is a win no matter how you slice it.
I sincerely hope you can think of what I am saying as a positive and not something negative, what we can agree on is something needs to change to keep APBA DSR/DSH alive, and what was done in the past obviously did not work.
Dave Mason
Just A Boat Racer
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Being the owner of 3 mod 44`s & 2 Tohatsu`s I will say that the Tohatsu`s is a great place for a driver with none are little experience. The driver Dave refered to was our pit man for several years. Bought himself a Run. and ran one of the Tohatsu`s. Had himself a great time.Myself & Keith did do a lot of mentoring to get him off to the right start. He caught on fast and is talking about a new boat.
I do agree that you can do a lot of the work yourself and build a 44 some what cheaper than a Tohatsu. I do 90% of the build on our 44`s. I do farm out cyl. boring & line boring, but I do the ports, hone & balance rods, rework the crank etc. There are lot of other things that eat up the money if your building an engine thats capable of winning.. New lower unit and down housing will eat up a couple grand alone. I am sure if I were to pay myself 5 bucks an hour, I would exceed the cost of a Tohatsu by a lot. The other thing is very few people have the skills needed to do this. Not bragging just a fact.
Art K
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Can you implement some kinda 'race-rental' program- so I can use one of those?? (yeah, I'm a bit worried about D-Stock & Mod too here in Reg 7 too) Those motors look like they been in storage WAY too longOriginally posted by john527 View Post
These were fishing motors once!
that is sad ----Find A Driver Program"?
Last edited by Kip69w; 04-15-2014, 03:18 PM.Comment
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To Pops comment up there. (lol) I think my name is hidden within your story somehow...lol. I started out in DSH and Im sure MANY remember I had at least a 2-yr learning curve... In fact, I even heard that during my year No2, there were a few that were considering asking me to "leave the class" because of how many times I came out of my boat (every other race?) But everything worked out after I got a decent boat in year No3
Here's the Kudos; I had a whole buncha fellow racers (dsh&dmh) within BSOA & MRC who gave their advice, race after race, weekend after weekend. (there was a few who got annoyed by my repeated questions too) But hey, I think I turned out ok (?) Because of guys like Terz/Emmill/Franck/Hauenstein -I turned out 'okay' (i know, thats subject to debate)
Back to Subject: "Jump Start" the D-Class.... Some suggestions within this post not too bad. Remember, I got in to racing and the D-class because "someone trusted" me enuff to let me go out for some laps. After that I was hooked. Imagine if I never got that ride... (Thanks Steve Johnson!) Since then, I have never said "NO" to anyone getting in my rig -except a drunk guy.
Here's one other thing; Why aren't any other D-Guys letting a B or C driver take your boat out for a ride or race? a few laps between turnboat changes? (why not!?) If I got hooked (as a spectator) why wouldn't a current racer possibly do the same? I've noticed there are some 'strange' fellas that won't even consider letting MYSELF run their boat for a couple laps. This seems strange to me. Then again, my name is.... "kip"Comment
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Interesting stuff so far....I have sent over the last four years maybe 10 drivers out in my D rig, and I think Darren has done the same. Every person that comes back in after a few laps has a big smile on their face.....one person even bought my backup Tohatsu rig from me...Comment
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If you are thinking of running D, you can buy a used powerhead.....they are pretty easy to find, especially in Canada. I have seen complete powerheads for as little as 500 bucks....same carbs, flywheel etc. You of course would need to purchase a center section and lower unit, as well as throttle linkage. I do not know how much that stuff costs to be honest with you. One thing we have going in our favor is Alex Polikopf.....he is a great source of information as well as parts....Comment
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OK, this is my last comment on this subject. Get off the idea that you are some kind of "special individual" or "super talented driver" to get a freakin D hydro around the race course without being a danger to yourself or competitors. I know, I would love to think of myself as some kind of rare breed that stands head and shoulders above these mortals that stand on the banks and dream of being as awesome as I am. But, in honesty, it's just not that big of a deal. Yes, it's fun. Yes, it's challenging (at times), and yes it's hard to run out front constantly. But, please, you need to try some other motorsports out before you put yourself up on some pedestal. I love boat racing, and I welcome all newcomers to run D. Some folks that are getting started may want to go a little faster than 70 mph. Not everyone thinks it's such a big deal. Hate that I had to be the one that said it, but, Someone had to. (&As a retired veteran of CSH, it is by FAR the most scary racing out there)Comment
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Nice looking Green Coweled "D" motor.
You do MARVEOUS machine work.
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Since I'm the guy putting the RAM50 (Tohatsu M50D2 with the drive system by Bass Machines) together and selling it as a Racing Engine Package, per a competition engine exclusion waiver from our EPA, here's the way I see it: I started out in D in 1963... WHY 'D'? Because, I just saw the guys running the other motors having all kinds of little issues, mainly getting off the beach. Some of you may not agree, but that's how I saw it. And having been to Merc school I knew I could make a 55H run.. CONSISTENTLY!! Nothing like those 4 cylinders & that Kiekhaefer mag. So.. you can say reliability, ease of starting, and power drew me to D. And those same reasons are why we have so many Yamatos out there today - they run and run and get you off the beach virtually all the time. They just don't have a cowl or rewind
..no big deal.
Over the last few years, due to the age of the 44XS different issues have arisen (you name them) and those did not help the class grow at all. Then when Bass Machines presented the Tohatsu, he got all this pushback from the peanut gallery, no support from Propeller, zero video coverage at the Nat's... and biased comments from people, many of whom didn't have a pot to pee in nor a window to toss it out of. But, that's life and life just isn't a level playing field.... never will be. But.. life is still good.
So, today we are seeing a little more light on the horizon, especially in APBA. NBRA and AOF broke the code, so to speak, several years ago - THEY have grown the class. WHY 'D'? The simple fact is the RAM50, is easy to maintain, has a cowl and a rewind (and even electric start), and gets off the beach consistently. Engines, parts and logistical support are readily available. People are seeing this.. THIS is what is propelling the D Class.
Like Dave Mason basically said, only "you" can decide what class suits the way you are wired. Try D.. you just might like it. I did.
Alex
Richmond Aero Marine
207-737-4570
ram95@myfairpoint.netLast edited by ram95; 04-16-2014, 08:37 AM.Comment
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This seems like the most likely way to get new D drivers, guys that are tired of getting beat and beat up by these young fast guys we have running C around here.Originally posted by STEVE FRENCH View Post
Personally, in my "non-sensed" opinion, I would feel a ton less stressed putting a Rookie in DSH where he would have a good chance of running mid-pac much sooner, in a smooth ride than in back of the CSH field getting knocked around and possibly run over with 11 other rigs in the first turn, or the last turn being lapped.
CSH flat SCARES me!!.
I have several fast CSH boats still (3S-Pavlic/116N-Besoats) and both are now 25MOD rigs Just because CSH is TOO rough for this pair of arthritic knees!........
I can start out front in CSH, but by the second lap I'm just trying to stay out of the way, in the boat, AND dry.
I sold all my Yamatos to Jess Ward (15S?) except one for CMH/NBRA Mid-West events...... IF I ever find another CMH hull (that doesn't vanish) for it .......And have been looking at several DSH/CMH Aurltralite(speel chek?) carbon hulls that might give me and my fat/led(Lead) butt a chance to run both CMH or DSH.
Moby Grape Racing
"Fast Boats Driven Hard"
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I bought my first 44XS right from the factory in Sept of 1987...man was I excited! And for whatever reason, the thing was fast right out of the box.....did not tear it apart until after the 91 Youngstown nationals....I also purchased the last 44XS produced, in April of 93. I think it was 2009, and I spend a TON of money on what I thought would be a world beater 44XS powerhead.....and for whatever reason, as Mr Propnuts will attest to, the thing was a total dog....and I have no idea why...just one of those things. Firesaled all of my D stock stuff on a monday after a race, ordered my new Tohatsu from Sid Bass on a Thursday, and went racing. Lemme tell ya...you do NOT want to put a Tohatsu D motor on a standard 44XS boat....and to the well known D driver that is looking at buying one and putting it on his XS boat;.....you are making a huge mistake, I hate to see you dump and get hurt or something. Anyway, I keep careful records of every heat I run, and as of now have run around 180 heats.....and aside from dumping once...(which did hurt btw) shearing pins twice, the Tohatsu has been 100% bullet proof. Almost every heat I have entered I have finished. Like with any race motor, there are a few quirks you have to deal with.....but you will in my opinion never see A Tohatsu come in from a race with a rod sticking out of the side. A few other things....this thing is the easiest race motor I have ever seen to take apart and put back together. If I had all of the tools, most of which consist of 10 and 13 mil sockets, I could have the powerhead apart down to the crank in less the 30 minutes, and put back together and race ready in the same amount of time. You don't even need ring compressors. And the lower unit is the same way....a few simple tools and it is apart. Just wanted to share a few things with everybody. DaveComment
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Dave, I will certainly agree with you about the Tohatsu's robustness. And I would also disagree with you about putting the engine on a "standard" D hydro. But I digress, instead maybe we should focus on how to get new drivers into the class. Let me list engine options for the class. Anybody feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm going from memory. 1: Merc 44xs, with either the made for racing xs block, or an approved Merc 500 block. I'm vaguely aware of a bunch of aftermarket parts that have been approved for this D engine option. 2: The Merc 55H. I think you can use either the original 40ci "H" block, or any 40ci service block. (I've heard it argued by some that the service block is faster) 3. The Merc "Super Thunderbolt". I think this engine option allows almost any Mark 58 (44ci) block mounted on an "H" tower and lower unit. (This might be the most economical D engine option, but I've never heard of anybody using this configuration) 4. The new Ram50 Tohatsu. Or you can build your own Bass/Tohatsu from the proper service powerhead and an approved Bass tower and lower unit. With all these engine options, I don't know what else can be done engine wise to encourage D class participation. Any input?
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what type of investment would i be looking at for a tohatsu setup minus hull not seeing any motors for sale currentlyComment
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Alex has brand new ones for sale right now.......and he takes credit cards.......how easy is that?Originally posted by westcoastracing View PostDaren
DSH/750ccmh/850ccmh
Team Darneille
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