Future of D stock hydro/runaboat

[daveracerdsh]

Figured it was time to start a new thread on this subject....I actually felt that the SORC did a good job when we brought the new D tohatsu into the class. It took something like 8 or 9 years for one to win nationals? Ed Hearn was SORC chair at the time, and he made some wise decisions in my opinion. If the motor had been allowed to run at the same height as the 44XS, with the tuner, you would have seen a D rig at least 3-4 miles an hour faster then the XS. Ya, you might have sold a few more the first year or two, but the XS guys would have been rightfully pissed off and left the class. A good XS rig is still capable in my opinion of winning nationals...especially on a longer course. A few things that both Darren and myself have discovered about the Tohatsu....you sure need a different boat then you do with a 44XS...wider bottom, slightly bigger sponsons, etc etc....and the props that I ran with my old motor do not work with the Tohatsu. Like any race motor, there are a few "quirks" associated with the Tohatsu...the reeds, depending on which ones you use, can go out in a big hurry, the rewind is sorta weak, etc etc. But that being said they are bulletproof internally...the rods etc are much beefier then the Mercury rods....I would be shocked if somebody threw one thru the case. As far as the future of the class? There are some used motors now becoming available, and at a decent price. Hopefully that will help matters. Anybody out there have ideas as how to help the class grow? Would love to hear them. Dave

[Merc1]

Get some of the guys running C to make the next step into D.

[Team 12R]

I disagree

"I actually felt that the SORC did a good job when we brought the new D tohatsu into the class" you say?

The Tohatsu should have been made a legal 750 motor years ago. More bang for the 6000 bucks for a new motor. The Tohatsu was kept out of the game by those protecting their motor boxes. I didn't agree. Height & Weight WAS a good call. The fact that a guy could run his Tohatsu DSH with the 44 yet have to sit and watch that stock 44 run as a legal motor in 750 was the problem.

That's hopefully behind us now. If I didn't have a J racer coming on board I would be real serious about Tohatsuing up and running D again. You nailed it... "The best ride".... Sure is good to see a couple new D rigs being built this year here in 10.

[jeff55v]

The D class has been hurt by the artificially low price of Yamato engines. $6500 is not a high price for a new outboard motor. Go check prices for a new 50hp fishing motor at your local boat shop.

[csh12M]

I think D class growth has a few challenges.

1. This has been stated, but the low cost of a Yamato combined with the popularity of the C classes. The weight of the C classes also allows up to a 220lb guy in Hydro and a 230+ guy in runabout to compete. This covers most of the upper end as far as the size of the individual goes. It is a better value prop.

2. The combination of Stock and Mod at virtually all races around the country. The Mod. 750 is a cheaper class to race than the Tohatsu, from a "bang for your buck" standpoint, many of the East coast DSH guys went 750. Since they both are running at the same races it is tough to compete with that value prop.

I think the Tohatsu seems like a nice motor, it does have potential. However, I think it is going to continue to be an up hill climb. As used equipment becomes available in the next five years it will help. It is hard to fault the Mod. category for wanting to keep the "spirit" of their category alive. They appreciate low cost hand built engines. For sure it would be better for the Tohatsu owners and drivers if it was in 750, but should that be the concern of the Mod. category? Interesting conversation for sure...

I think the best thing that can happen for the class is for Dave and Darren to continue showing it off. I thought your rigs looked great at Whitney Point, and it was the first time in a long time that I contemplated myself running D.

Just some random thoughts, to test the site.
12M

[Dave M]

Well, I have seen the argument from stockers that they don't want a Sidewinder in 20SSh. Why ? The class ain't broke, don't fix it, etc. Motors are vaialble without it, etc, etc. Well hello........... the VERY same arguments can be made for this engine into Mod 750CC. 750CCH is one if not the largest Mod class in the category. It is considerably cheaper to build than the purchase price of the Tohotsu. Especially if you can do some of the work yourself. Mod is for tinkerers, we love to tweak, port engines, add pipes, change this, change that and that comes with the territory. The last thing Mod needs is complications to the rules like the stock category has. Since it is obvious the two categories will never be combined in APBA, I don't see where the Tohotsu will ever be allowed to compete up front in the mod category.


This is just my opinion. And hopefully this will not step on any APBA toes, but in NBRA, it is combined with the mod category in a class that needed help, D Hydro and D Runabout. It runs the 40CI Mod engine (Merc) and the Tohotsu. Flip a coin to see who will win, it is that competitive, without any restrictions on the Tohotsu from a height perspective, or prop persepctive. Since its inception iinto the NBRA that class has grown exponentionaly with new rigs added every year. It is one of my favorite classes to watch. You have the scream of the Mercs to attract the crowds and spectators combined with the stock smoothness of the Hotsu. Lots of competition in this class. Oh, did I mention, the Merc 44XS is also a legal engine in the lass in the stock format...... What is the right corporate lingo.... win-win ?

[blueskyracer]

The D class has been hurt by the artificially low price of Yamato engines. $6500 is not a high price for a new outboard motor. Go check prices for a new 50hp fishing motor at your local boat shop.

No lie Jeff those four stoke motors are not being given away

[blueskyracer]

I will add that when I started I might of gone with the Tohatsu if the talk had been more positive about its future when I started.. Plus it was a lot of money for only one class to run in..

[jeff55v]

No lie Jeff those four stoke motors are not being given away

Actually, I meant the 2 stroke TLDI 50hp Tohatsu. Online Outboards lists it at $6375. I was gonna look up the going price of a new Mercury outboard, but aren't those made by Tohatsu anyway?

[laddies]

I have 3 sons which quit going to closed course races after the skid fins were made legal in D runabout, they still participate at Top of Michigan though. I believe that the fins have been a determent In D runabout.

[DiGia54D]

Now I didnt pay attention to much back in the day, But Dave Jones who ran DSR in the late 80's told me he stopped because they changed the rule on the length of the boats. That was a main reason for him not running that class anymore. He had a 44xs and won the nationals in Hinton 86? maybe 85 not sure. But since the early 90's other than Top O, cant say DSR is much of a class. I wish it would come back...fun to see a bunch of them running

[ram95]

First, thank all of you posting about the Tohatsu and the D Class. Although D Runabout is almost extinct in APBA except for the fine folks running Top-O, the troops over in NBRA are growing the class. I think it can come back in APBA as well, and I'm certainly all for it. And not just because I'd like to sell engines (RAM50's R us), I really think the class has appeal and can attract young and old, big and small, male and female, alike. I love watching those flat-turner's sliding around turn 2 and barreling up the front straight... and so do the spectators! Yes 6000 bucks for an engine is not pocket change, but when one adds up every dime spent, and every hour in the shop (and on the phone), in order to put a front-running Merc on the water.... a new RAM50 out of the box makes more sense. Trouble is, not too many racers or potential racers, have that much money up front. So, the incremental approach ie small expenditures one or two at a time make getting into a rig more affordable. Only an improvement in our economy will fix that.

In the meantime though... for those of you who can beg, borrow, invent, mortgage, etc, I have a brand new RAM50 just like the one I had on display at the Nationals. You want electric start..?.. you got it. You want to be able to fit a tuner into the tower...?.. you can do it. You want 16/17 gears..?.. you can have em. You want it on a set of clamps..?.. you can have it. You want one today...!!!?...drive up here and get it (bring snow-chains!!).

Call for pricing
Alex
207-737-4570
netohatsu@myfairpoint.net

[blueskyracer]

Alex I like the snow chains comment.. We can actually see our green ground again with a pile here and there

[pops67g]

There is another issue that has not been mentioned til now. Several of us are long time D drivers (and "long time" is the operative phrase) here in the Midwest. Our days are numbered in the role as drivers. We may have replacements in the wings or not as some of us have sons that run other classes or divisions. They may take over for us or they may not. D is NOT a class where we want raw rookies jumping in so forget that angle if you are looking for new drivers. The only logical source is in the ranks of proven drivers in the smaller classes. Over the years I have seen very few instances where someone jumped out of a C hydro into a D and I can't recall any who continued on in the larger class. Where do we go from here???

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

Allow 302 Yamato gearcases on H towers?

[STEVE FRENCH]

Allow 302 Yamato gearcases on H towers?

~~How about the "Bass" foot the Tohatsu uses??