BANNED: 2-stroke engines.

[Geezeracer]

There's a lot of great stuff available, but you'll need to connect to players' sites to get a sense of it all first. The drag racers are probably most in tune. When E-boats peetered out in the late '90s NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing Association) was just forming, and drags turned out to be a perfect playground. Races were short bursts with top-up recharges about every three passes, and little to no holding back. The 2.000 amp motor controller on Mike's hydro was one of the first NEDRA developed products, and there were plenty more.
http://www.nedra.com

Prestolite motors were favorites because they were incredibly tolerant of abuse. We ran regularly their 48v motors at 144v and occasionally tested at 168v. On our lesser "field-filler" we ran their 12v pallet jack motors regularly at 48v but now and then we'd run as high as 84v. there are newer motors that can match them, but lots of these are still around at decent cost.

Batteries were a big problem initially on a couple counts. The only definably reliable batteries were automotive lead/acid, in packs of 4 to 12. Pack weight was huge, and range was limited to about 3 miles. In launching and recovery we looked like pyramid slaves in a Cecil B. DeMille film. I could see from the first laptop batteries that L-Ion offered a great answer, but before we could act on a rules change (we were APBA Special Event) South Africa presented a copy of our rules to UIM and UIM adopted them, lead/acid and all. Their writer made a mess of translating them into UIM-ese. and when I explained how they's screwed up and how to fix things my reward was a request to bugger-off, plus a note to Gloria at APBA asking her to keep the riff-raff out of UIM business.

Eventually a kilos competitor broke the kilo record, but missed a rule as I'd guessed would happen, and wrote about in publications, leading to the first ever UIM record withdrawal, and a polite inquiry asking if I'd mind fixing things. In the fixing process I opened battery chemistry to anything commercially available, and opened motors to include brushless DC...Like high RPM AC, but without AC's lethal potential. At the time (2005) I didn't expect we'd see L-Ion until at least 2015.

Mike was an RC model record holder though, at a time lithium cells were becoming common in use. He elected to build a cell-based pack. Each cell outputs 22.2v at 4500 mAh. Each group of 7 parallels with 5 other 22.2v groups to feed 132.2v to the motor. The good part is that the pack's power density is 3 to 5 times better than the past lead/acid packs, the great news is that the total pack only weighs about 80 pounds, compared to lead/acid's 500...and you can distribute those 80 pounds strategically to make the boat fly better. At the time the cost was pretty high, but costs have come down enormously since then, and lithium cells seem to have a long life.

John

[Geezeracer]

"Electric-Only" sounds good, but we learned pretty quickly that what the signs really meant was don't go fast. We chose Lake Ballinger for tests because it was close-in and because the city was foolish enough to put an electric boats only sign that they imagined would keep keep traffic down to trolling motors...We just had to try it out.

We put norm Boddy's Runabout in and sent him off. As Norm zipped down to the south end to twirl around, cop cars began to appear, first one or two, then more and more until the parking lot was full, with officers lining the shore and fishing dock with ticket books in hand waiting for Norm's return...It looked a lot like an old E.F. Hutton TV commercial. then, as Norm arrived and shut-down, One of the officers turned to another and asked "Say Ed...Doesn't that look like an electric motor?"

The Police were kind of amused, and it turned out that one was a tournament water skier. One of our racers was running a scabby Glastron ski-boat (you have to start with whatever works) and we used it to take him and several more police skiing on an "electric-only" lake...The first step to getting a testing agreement :-)

John

[raceright]

That electric boat is awesome!
I would embrace an all electric racing class.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm very much a 2 stroke guy, but as it was stated earlier in this thread the end is near for two stroke technology, as we use it. Unless we as boat racers adopt new two stroke and 4 stroke technology into our rule books we face the possibility of loosing our race sites to the "tree huggers". Lets be reasonable here, we don't have a fraction of the money that the "tree hugger" lobbyists have. So, we will never win this fight, they will win out eventually. I think that the natural progression would be to start developing the new 2 stroke technology, like the E-Tech or Optimax, for our way of racing and/or start looking at the 4 stroke motors that are available. Then also develop the electrics along with the 4 strokes to eventually replace 4 strokes when the "tree huggers" deem them to be pollutants of our water ways.

I also agree with what was said about being stewards of our lakes and streams. Because without showing that side, of we what do, it will only make it easier for the "tree huggers" to accomplish their end game sooner!

Add: wanted to clarify that I'm not suggesting that we ban our current lineup of motors just that we should be proactive in our efforts. That way we are better prepared for the inevitable. Also just watched the link for the electric hydro and WOW! It is not without it's own unique sound either. I can imagine a field of 8 or so out on the water and I think they would draw a crowd.

I get the electric thing pretty cool. As internal combustion goes whether a two stroke or four stroke if run on methanol like my Konny's,konig's and Rossi's the harm to the environment (that tree hugger's claim) is greatly reduced and exceeds all requirement's.
I have not seen the comparisons in several years but Pete Hellsten did some kind of report on this and his findings were very positive for us boat racers.

If you knew Pete and understood his credential's you would not argue his report.

[PROPDOC]

I get the electric thing pretty cool. As internal combustion goes whether a two stroke or four stroke if run on methanol like my Konny's,konig's and Rossi's the harm to the environment (that tree hugger's claim) is greatly reduced and exceeds all requirement's.
I have not seen the comparisons in several years but Pete Hellsten did some kind of report on this and his findings were very positive for us boat racers.

If you knew Pete and understood his credential's you would not argue his report.

I agree with you 100 percent!
I was raised in a marina, my Grandfather and Dad built the marina on the lake that I grew up on in MI, and have been around internal combustion engines since about the age of 8. So I do understand what you are saying, I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

My point is this - the environmental lobbyists have millions of dollars to ensure that their agenda gets heard and more importantly passed into law. We as boat racers are never going to be able to compete with that. I have not seen Mr. Hellsten's report, but would like to, I'm sure it is good reading. I'm not arguing your point just being realistic about what is coming in the very near future.

[raceright]

I agree with you 100 percent!
I was raised in a marina, my Grandfather and Dad built the marina on the lake that I grew up on in MI, and have been around internal combustion engines since about the age of 8. So I do understand what you are saying, I think you might have misunderstood what I was trying to say.

My point is this - the environmental lobbyists have millions of dollars to ensure that their agenda gets heard and more importantly passed into law. We as boat racers are never going to be able to compete with that. I have not seen Mr. Hellsten's report but would like to as I'm sure it is good reading. I'm not arguing your point just being realistic about what is coming in the very near future.

The environmental lobbyists although have the media behind them (only because it makes good copy) have not been getting the same respect from different places as they used to but enough about them.
I can only wish that the two stroke like it is now stays that way for the next 15 to 25 years because if Im lucky that all I need lololoooloolo

[PROPDOC]

....I can only wish that the two stroke like it is now stays that way for the next 15 to 25 years because if Im lucky that all I need lololoooloolo

Again I agree. I am a true lover of the two stroke engine, mainly due to it's simplicity in design and it's incredible horsepower to weight potential.

[raceright]

As impressive as the electrics appear does anyone have any thoughts as to there turning or power off the turn---we all know that this is what our type of racing is about.

We are working on a USTS race near you ?? What do you race.

[rumleyfips]

Electric motors produce full torque from 1 rpm to max rpm. That is why most use a 3 or 4 multiplyer to size motors . A 4 hp electric performs like a 12+ hp ICE. I replaced the 10 hp gas motor on my riding mower with a 4 hp electric and can burn the rubber of the drive disc if not careful.
Acceleration should be good.

[raceright]

As impressive as the electrics appear does anyone have any thoughts as to there turning or power off the turn---we all know that this is what our type of racing is about.

We are working on a USTS race near you ?? What do you race.

Prop Doc please answer or if you wish PM me

[hoosier]

I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's GE invested a significant amount of capital in the Eltec line of electric garden tractors . They later sold the line off to Wheel Horse who ended up giving up on them a few years later . I wonder why an industry giant like GE gave up on it ?

[raceright]

I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's GE invested a significant amount of capital in the Eltec line of electric garden tractors . They later sold the line off to Wheel Horse who ended up giving up on them a few years later . I wonder why an industry giant like GE gave up on it ?

They have to profit and it is not only about a good product it has to make Money

[Yellowjacket]

I remember back in the late 60's and early 70's GE invested a significant amount of capital in the Eltec line of electric garden tractors . They later sold the line off to Wheel Horse who ended up giving up on them a few years later . I wonder why an industry giant like GE gave up on it ?

Having built an electric car, a hybrid bus and a hybrid car, I can say that electric motor propulsion is a wonderful thing, and for a short period of time you can extract a lot of power from an electric motor.

Energy density of electric power storage unfortunately isn't very good, and even the recent advances in battery technology are barely enough to make electric vehicles marginally acceptable. Bottom line is that the amount of energy that you could store at the time required a lot of weight and that would make a small garden tractor a lot heavier and that just wouldn't work..

[rumleyfips]

Yellowjacket:

I like my electric riding mower. It cuts grass for about an hour on a 2.5 kw charge from a golf cart charger plugged into the solar system inverter. At 10 amps the charge takes a couple of hours.

The motor is a Briggs and Stratton Etec and I use 3 180GXL gel cells from the recycler @$25. The phone compancy replaces by the calender not by condition.

The 12 hp B&S ICE, starting battery, gas tank and fuel totaled 90 lb removed. The Etec motor is 14 lb and 3 batteries weigh 195. Its about 120 more but I weigh 160 not 220 so things are close enough that there are no problems.

It takes me 3 1/2 hours to mow my lawn and I've done it with an electric for 4 years.

[hoosier]

Having built an electric car, a hybrid bus and a hybrid car, I can say that electric motor propulsion is a wonderful thing, and for a short period of time you can extract a lot of power from an electric motor.

Energy density of electric power storage unfortunately isn't very good, and even the recent advances in battery technology are barely enough to make electric vehicles marginally acceptable. Bottom line is that the amount of energy that you could store at the time required a lot of weight and that would make a small garden tractor a lot heavier and that just wouldn't work..

Hmm limited range , heavy weight , lack of significant advancement in battery technology? Not exactly the application for hydros. How about that flux capacitor thing ?

[raceright]

Hmm limited range , heavy weight , lack of significant advancement in battery technology? Not exactly the application for hydros. How about that flux capacitor thing ?

That's Funny