BANNED: 2-stroke engines.

[rumleyfips]

Shane:
I think I saw that truck on Pass Time. Electric racing motorcycles have also been doing some impressive things. An AMA racer , Chip somebody, was put at the back for a race for regular AMa bikes and passed most of the field. An electric was the fastest motorcycle at Pikes Peak last year. The one that impressed me was a lap of 109 mph average at the 37.7 mile circuit of the Isle of Man.

[hoosier]

That Tesla car is setting the world on fire , literally !

[rumleyfips]

Google Tesla at Forbes. Sales up and stock price up for 2013.

[rumleyfips]

Tesla vehicles had fewer fires per 100,00 m than GM, Ford or Chrysler in 2013.

[hoosier]

Have you added that to your portfolio? Actually I find the Nissan Leaf more interesting as it's almost practical at $30,000 after the latest $6,000 price decrease .

[raceright]

Two Stroke anyone????

[Smitty]

Steve, I've been told about Kart-O-Rama, but not Sumas, thanks.

Rumley, I was impelled to build a boat (Hal Kelly "Jupiter") in high school in 1964 to run B Stock Hydro, and this was because I had gone to a local stock-only race and heard the glorious sound of a full field of BSH's roaring down for a start. Had all of the classes run that day been quiet A, C, and D stockers, I would never have raced outboards, and gone to Inboards instead, where every class had open pipes and sounded like real racemotors should sound. I grew up going down to watch the Unlimiteds on Lk Washington, and soak up that soul-stirring thunder, but I lost all interest when the vacuum-cleaner motors (gas turbines) repaced the big V-12s. And I wouldn't walk across the street to watch any sort of electric racing vehicle, regardless of performance, nor do I see anything remotely attractive about an electric-motored sports car. Obviously, this is emotional rather than rational, but we are emotional beings, and I bet a whole lot of guys, at least older guys, are with me on this.

Seabat and BlueSkyRacer, yes my thread has some political content; how could this problem be addressed without it? I'm describing a problem that 2-stroke owners are having with (mostly local) government authorities, who themselves have been informed, or rather misinformed, by the environmentalist community, which tends to have identifiable political leanings. Certainly discussion of the problem does NOT call for ranting about political parties or persons or political philosophies, period. What I hoped to hear was ideas on how to fight back, probably best done by attempting to educate both the authorities and the "greens," somehow.

[Shane_B]

Aggressive Public Relations To Shape our Future

Agree many environmentalist engineers are extremely biased and in fact blind to actual facts (hell, my brother is an environmental engineer is an perfect example of being blind to the obvious) - racing 2 cycles are a HUGE minority of water/air pollutants (with many zeros to the right of the decimal point before an actual #) and should be a moot point but it isn't because of the public perception which unfortunately leads to new regulations... Agree with previous statements here that we need to view it as a public relations matter - much as hunters have taken up watershed conservation with Ducks Unlimited - ahd show how our clubs are helping conserve local lakes with extremely minimal environmental impact...

Smitty - agree that the noise of roarling engines does stoke the testosterone level, all the more reason to be proactive on public relations instead of waiting for events to occur further restricting the sport now. On another note - I'm a BIG fan of the Tesla S - beautiful car, if you have a dealer near by, go check one out (although I can't justify spending that amount of money). And they are getting a bad rap for fires - how many gasoline cars have you seen on fire by the side of the highway? You better believe all the big car manufacturers had a big hand in publicizing those Tesla fires (and the one in Mexico was after the guy hit a couple of trees, telephone poles, and a house I believe when traveling in excess of 100 mph). Again, a matter of public perception due to how public relation firms tweak the image... All the more reason why we need to take the offensive in public relations for our sport - we need to show how we are good stewarts of our lakes/rivers/etc.

So much for my rambling - sorry.

[Smitty]

I like it, Shane; even the anti-gun folk among the environmentalists do recognize the good work of Ducks Unlimited and some other hunting/fishing groups.

No Teslas, though. A Tesla strikes me about like vegetarian chili . . . "Why would anyone want THAT??"

I think some of you guys who tell us that we need to muffle all our motors are right AND wrong, and it depends on the location. The sound of unmuffled racemotors is a big attractant to exactly the people who are potential race visitors and fans. That sound is a deterant to those who would never have any interest. Do we want to cater to them, or to the fans? The answer, I'd think, would be to find race-sites in small towns that WANT an event with lots of noise and color and excitement, like Depue, and whose city-fathers see an annual outboard race as something to brag about, and who choose to ignore the granny-ladies who complain.

[Geezeracer]

The car you've beentalking about is John Wayland's "White Zombie". The video's a few years old now, and Zombie, along with several others are currently running in the 8s/9s. The fastest E-ride right now in Shawn Lawless's E-Bike at 6 seconds 201 mph, but Don Garlits is putting an electric rail together aimed at 250 or more.

We've run lots of E-boats. Early-on they were pretty crude because Motor controllers stout enough to handle the amperage didn't exist. It was all "switch-on/hang-on" Frankenstein switches then, but The boat pictured appeared just as performance electronics began to become available, and used them to raise the E-boat record by about 50% to 98.8 mph. Here's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yNu2_LlO9s

The Boat's a Ron Jones Jr composite D-Stock. The motor's a 48v Prestolite fork-lift motor on a Bass Bros. lower unit. The batteries are 22.2v Lithium polymer wired series/parallel for a 133.2v output. There's a gearbox between the motor and leg to step up prop RPM to about 11,000

In Past kilos we'd tow to within 400 ft of the entrance, run through with a quick turn and back-pass because power of the lead/acid packs began to sag on the return pass, but this boat starts just like any other with a a loop out of the south bay to run through to the north end of the lake, turn and return, with enough surplus to make about three more full passes. It could easily run full clock start races, and I think if run with D-Hydros it would be competitive.

John

[Shane_B]

Quote: "The Boat's a Ron Jones Jr composite D-Stock. The motor's a 48v Prestolite fork-lift motor on a Bass Bros. lower unit. The batteries are 22.2v Lithium polymer wired series/parallel for a 133.2v output. There's a gearbox between the motor and leg to step up prop RPM to about 11,000."

Phenomenal boat! With the new lightweight/high output Lithium Vanadium Phosphate and Lithium Manganese Oxide/NMC batteries and new motors/controllers, I'm sure we'll keep pushing that record higher very soon. Wondering how difficult it would be to make it a class - would have to regulate type of battery and controllers or else new technology will quickly make boats obsolete.. and then ensuring controller software is managed - as new strides are made in that field, will have to ensure everyone has same software to keep it competitive within its class (and how to verify software in itself will be a challenge). Assume batteries would have a failsafe mechanism to shut down in the event of boat flipping/swamping/etc. - arcing potentially several amperes into the water will raise the hair of any driver... But I see electric boats being PART of our future - not necessarily replacing 2 cycle motors... only a matter of time .

[SeaBat]

Hey Shane,
Understand that DOD is requiring the army to change the Abrams to electric power to cut down on battlefield emissions. Just kidding! Go Navy
Bill Thomas

[Shane_B]

Hey Shane,
Understand that DOD is requiring the army to change the Abrams to electric power to cut down on battlefield emissions. Just kidding! Go Navy
Bill Thomas

Hey Bill - you're not far off... DoD has gone to non-lead bullets and got rid of the depleted uranium penetrators we used to knock out enemy tanks because "they were bad for the environment..." - no BS! Also looking at going hybrid for some of our vehicles - GDLS even came up with a diesel powerpack for our Abrams as a fuel saving option (MA12's turbine sucks fuel at 300 gal a day - whether it's moving or just idling). Yeah, save the environment - who cares if it can kill the enemy!

Politicians - sheesh.

[PROPDOC]

That electric boat is awesome!
I would embrace an all electric racing class.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm very much a 2 stroke guy, but as it was stated earlier in this thread the end is near for two stroke technology, as we use it. Unless we as boat racers adopt new two stroke and 4 stroke technology into our rule books we face the possibility of loosing our race sites to the "tree huggers". Lets be reasonable here, we don't have a fraction of the money that the "tree hugger" lobbyists have. So, we will never win this fight, they will win out eventually. I think that the natural progression would be to start developing the new 2 stroke technology, like the E-Tech or Optimax, for our way of racing and/or start looking at the 4 stroke motors that are available. Then also develop the electrics along with the 4 strokes to eventually replace 4 strokes when the "tree huggers" deem them to be pollutants of our water ways.

I also agree with what was said about being stewards of our lakes and streams. Because without showing that side, of we what do, it will only make it easier for the "tree huggers" to accomplish their end game sooner!

Add: wanted to clarify that I'm not suggesting that we ban our current lineup of motors just that we should be proactive in our efforts. That way we are better prepared for the inevitable. Also just watched the link for the electric hydro and WOW! It is not without it's own unique sound either. I can imagine a field of 8 or so out on the water and I think they would draw a crowd.

[Mike45]

Without a doubt the electric motor is impressive but I do not here a mention of the cost and also the cost of the batteries to run this, what is the life and how long to recharge for another run.

I could run this on the electric lakes only....cool