2014 J Class Rules

[LarryR]

This has been a good read. thanks to all contributors.
If the 'tuck' rule is a safety issue, why even discuss eliminating it? It doesn't cost anything and doesn't keep folks from entering the sport. Other points about entry cost and simplifying are well taken, IMO.

[pav225]

Safety Rules

Larry,
Thanks for the feedback.

As usual...there are two sides to the argument. By limiting tuck, we have the risk of more kids blowing over. By keeping unlimited tuck, you can drive the back end up.

Lots for the J Committee to discuss.


Mike

[PAUL PRICE]

When was the last "J" to Blow Over? I haven't seen (1) in 6 years of racing. Only the few that run the extreme tuck are suggesting that all of a sudden every kid is going to "Blow Over".What I have seen is spin outs in the turns and barrel rolls in the straightaways due to the lower unit being tucked under the boat so far that these kids can't control their equipment.Safety First....

[pav225]

Safety First!

Paul,
I agree...Safety First!!

Cole Olson blew over this year at Kankakee running 1/2" tuck.

Jared blew over an ASH size boat in JH running over 1/2" tuck.

I haven't seen any issues with extreme tuck, but admittedly we don't get to all the races.

Mike

[pav225]

* Cody Olson

[PAUL PRICE]

Mike , you were standing 10 ft from me at Grass Lake when Chew flat spun in Jsr and Austin did everything he could to avoid hitting him and luckily didn't cause any serious injury. Any other kid without Austin's experience would have drove right thru him. I remember that real well when I had to explain to my kid that he couldn't race at the North American Championship due to him being involved in an accident where the lead boat flat spun and was headed the wrong way towards the rest of the boats coming out of the turn which would result in a red flag that Austin brought out since he hit Chew .This is what I'm describing as "Extreme Tuck"= No Control ! Safety First.....

[Matt Dagostino]

Correct

When was the last "J" to Blow Over? I haven't seen (1) in 6 years of racing. Only the few that run the extreme tuck are suggesting that all of a sudden every kid is going to "Blow Over".What I have seen is spin outs in the turns and barrel rolls in the straightaways due to the lower unit being tucked under the boat so far that these kids can't control their equipment.Safety First....

Paul is 100% right on this.......extreme tuck is dangerous and the rule in j class should match the Stock Outboard rule in ASH and AXH. I go to tons of races with Paul and Stillwill and have seen what can happen to these 'tucked' outfits!

The J Committee needs to put their safety hats on and fix this!

[pav225]

Mike , you were standing 10 ft from me at Grass Lake when Chew flat spun in Jsr and Austin did everything he could to avoid hitting him and luckily didn't cause any serious injury. Any other kid without Austin's experience would have drove right thru him. I remember that real well when I had to explain to my kid that he couldn't race at the North American Championship due to him being involved in an accident where the lead boat flat spun and was headed the wrong way towards the rest of the boats coming out of the turn which would result in a red flag that Austin brought out since he hit Chew .This is what I'm describing as "Extreme Tuck"= No Control ! Safety First.....

Paul,
I'm not necessarily disagreeing...just saying there are two sides to the tuck rule. I've seen kids blow over and I knew they were running 1/2" tuck.

I don't know Rylans set up or if it was due to not enough fin. Maybe Richard can chime in.

I've also not seen any barrel rolls in J. I definitely saw them in ASH before the tuck rule, but I think J is a different situation because it goes so much slower and doesn't have as much power to drive the back end up like an A.

I personally don't care which way the decision goes. I would however like the J Committee to consider "both sides" and get more input from drivers/parents aside from us.

Mike

P.S. They red flagged the JH race at Kankakee and the dad had to explain to his brother that the red flag cost his brother the race win because he was out front. Just glad no one got hurt!

[pav225]

Paul is 100% right on this.......extreme tuck is dangerous and the rule in j class should match the Stock Outboard rule in ASH and AXH. I go to tons of races with Paul and Stillwill and have seen what can happen to these 'tucked' outfits!

The J Committee needs to put their safety hats on and fix this!

Matt,
Please expand on what happened to these "tucked" outfits. We haven't seen the issue at our races and it would be good if you shared.

Thanks,
Mike

[pav225]

No sarcasm in last post. I'm hoping you and George can share. Hoping Richard will comment on JR also.

I think we can all learn and move forward in a positive way.

Mike

[Karl Dyle]

2tukked?

Paul I appreciate that yourself, Matt and George are only concerned with the safety of all of the participating J class racers. I am not as experienced as all of you are with running more than 1/2" of tuck on these Junior Hydros and Runabouts,( I assume your steadfast belief of every incident in the last three years in J is due to too much engine tuck based on this personal knowledge.) I have only been participating for three years in the J classes. This past year my son Tanner did come out of his boat in Tabor City. the only change made to the set up of his boat was taking the formula A / ASH turn fin off and replacing with a more appropriate sized one, courtesy of Dave Bennett, it made a huge diffference in the way the boat turns. Tanner even managed a first place in september, in a very tough region 4 race!

I do believe that there might be other factors involved in some of these " incidents"? My nine year old raced all season thru 2013 Nationals,(rough!)with more than 1/2" tuck. No problems. After Whitney Point I had
him run a 2014 legal less than 1/2" set up, boy did he ever struggle after that? I never did have any spin outs rolling over etc. With tanner or fisher
since 2012 Alabama? Lots of practice in sunny FL too, even this past x mas.

What gives? Explain why im not ever spinning out? Not even once with four boats racing all year? Why are we not rolling over every weekend? I would
say that my 9 year old weighs more than your 15 year old, my 12 year old
probably weighs more than matts daughter does now.

Tanner likes J and is really doing a great job. Unfortunately at a 50 lb weight disadvantage he has to step up to AX this year. Read no props, no
experience, back to square one.

I do not have a stake in this "tuck war" for the next 14 years, and if next year proves to be no fun for my boys, (i have seen un tucked rigs not get on plane
at almost every race) and bigger drivers definately struggle more than small ones getting on plane, well who knows, maybe we will come up with a new mod J program, you all can keep your "stock" dream alive, at least between all three or four of you

[Karl Dyle]

I want to make sure that i am clear that safety is number one. Whatever rules are in place for this year, we will test, and race with in 2014.:thumbs:

[wrath of cron]

I am new to J racing but my son will be pretty active next year. The absolute last thing I want is to put him in harms way. I have a lot to learn but from what I do know too much lift in a prop, or too much tuck plants the front hard and induces bow steer. There may be some kids who can deal with that, some set ups that can midigate some of it but this class is a class for kids just learning (and some parents also just learning) and I'm thinking its not a good idea. I can't imagine him blowing over but I have seen a few flat spins from boats I don't think were ballanced right or were running too much tuck....Just Sayin'

[Matt Dagostino]

Just for learning??

I am new to J racing but my son will be pretty active next year. There may be some kids who can deal with that, some set ups that can midigate some of it but this class is a class for kids just learning (and some parents also just learning) and I'm thinking its not a good idea.'

Dear Wrath
Welcome to the world of J Racing. Both of my now grown children have come through the J Division as National Champions and Hall Of Champion inductee's.

Let me tell you something, if you think the J Class Division is 'just for learning' you are sadly mistaken. J Class racing is on the same level as Little League Baseball!! As long as APBA fosters a point system and Hall Of Champion positions for the J Classes it will remain as 'competitive' as any other classes within APBA.

I say this not to discourage you but to let you go in with eyes wide open. It doesn't take a kid long to figure out the difference between first place and last place! I am not saying competition amongst the youngsters is a bad thing but it is a reality. So don't let em kid you with the flavored Kool-Aid.

Many of us take boat racing seriously and want the proper safety rules in place to allow for great competition and SAFETY on the water. "Hydrotucking' is dangerous for the reasons you highlighted. Hopefully the J Committee will deal with this issue with the Runabouts as they have with the Hydroplane.

Best of luck to you and kick azz.

Matt
J Dad

[wrath of cron]

Matt I understand exactly what you said, I didn't mean to sound as though there was no competition, there sure is, but I do look at J as a learning curve for Johnnie and I.