2014 J Class Rules

[pav225]

Patrick,
Thanks for heading up the J Committee this year. Looks like a great group!

I will be following your guidelines and submitting a proposal for any changes by midnight tomorrow night.

A few changes that I would like to see the committee consider, and would like other drivers/ parent's input on is: plugging the motor/thermostat, picklefork radius, and tuck rule.

1) Motor Plugging: I would like to recommend that we do away with plugging the motor where the thermostat was and possibly allow plugging between the powerhead and tower. The current method of plugging was found as a loophole in the rules and has caused the Mercs to run extremely hot. Excessive heat, wear, and possible warpage result in unnecessary cost that we should avoid. I recommend we have a new plugging location identified and freely shared with the racing community. Or, chose not to plug the motor and slow the class by 2 mph.

2) Picklefork: Reduce the 1" radius requirement to 1/2". Most J boats don't have enough material in the sponsons/pickleforks to make the 1" radius. In addition, the requirements of a boat going 40 mph vs. one going 70 mph are quite different. I don't believe the same rules would need to apply, while still improving the safety of the boats.

3) Tuck Rule: Eliminate the tuck rule. I believe this rule was a result of the tuck rule in A. Since Js are only going 40 mph, I don't think the same rule applies as an A boat going 55 mph. I have not seen any accidents as a result of "extreme tuck" but I would like some input from others. Many of today's boats have been designed to run plenty of tuck, I'd hate to see more blowovers as a result of the new tuck rule.

Looking forward to hearing other's input,
Mike

[PAUL PRICE]

1)tuck rule: Austin & i remember grass lake in jsr at the north american championship this year with chew,& last year in alabama with grant ,also tanner at tabor city in jsh to name a few.the tuck rule needs to be in both classes....we have won 3 national titles ,set records,and raced others with the extreme tuck rule for years and its time to level the playing field.both of my sons run without the extreme tuck that others are running and win. Not once has either of my boys been pitched or spun out.if you read the statement on apba's website about the j class it says ,quote (safety is the number one priority in the apba junior classes. Whats number two? Having fun!) end quote.
2)motor plugging: Un-plugging the motors i agree,the run too hot.
3)picklefork: Adding wood to a sponson is easy, so no one gets confused or pitched,keep the rule even through out apba
why should (j) be any different than any other class in apba.
I know some of you will disagree with me and thats fine, i have 4 boys that will be in this j program for the next 14 years...

[bmitch1]

Hi folks!

First - my disclaimer/caveat - our family is new to this sport. We (kids included) attended racer school with TRORA and with MHRA last year with great results....and our success was such that we picked up a J hydro to prep for 2014. And, the deal is if we can get the kids enjoying the sport, then dad is able to get a ride too! Since our boat race experiences have solely been borrowed boats for a single weekend, I openly acknowledge our limited insight on matters of sustainability and advancement in this particular sport. I am not suggesting my comments be a factor in the 2014 rules - but if you're wondering what brings new families and racers to the sport, and what might keep them there - I offer my qualifed input, and humbly submit the following:

Our 'new-racer' goals for 2014 are reasonable:
1) Attend and safely compete in at least 6 races;
2) Make a sincere effort to run the boat(s) successfully (including doing the requisite testing before racing to put a responsible boat on the water);
3) Learn to make clean starts (preferably within 10 seconds but hoping for 5 by the end of the year);
4) Promote participation from the whole family so everyone is happily involved;
5) Visit the rivers and lakes of the midwest and have FUN!

I've read a TON of threads on the message boards about class motor rules (and yes, we new racers have quietly followed the infamous Sidewinder thread too). It seems the "J" learning curve for the sport carries a dark secret: yes, new J racers can buy one motor and two boats and ultimately race 4 classes (JH, AXH, JR, AXR) but to be competitive the "stock outboard" racer must also be ready to open (or pay someone ) the motor for such speed secrets as blueprinting, changing piston rings, and blocking the thermostat. Given that many of the races are won/lost at the start, it would seem contrary to the goals of these introductory/learning classes to promote much motor tinkering in addition to everything else the kids (and parents) are learning. With this "video-game" generation I can coach and explain to my kids about the importance of hitting a clean start within 5 seconds but I dread apologizing because dear 'ol dad just didn't buy 'enough' motor.

The APBA website promotes that J "classes have been developed specifically to give young drivers the experience needed to prepare them for the larger and faster classes in the adult categories", and that AX "is also great for those returning to racing, those preparing for faster hydro racing, or those who primarily want to have fun". The restrictor plate is a straight-forward approach to reducing power (and speed) so that young racers can be successful while minimizing internals on motors that already cost more than some of the adult classes.

I am fully aware of the testing ahead for us to get a "J" boat ready for racing - we witnessed many "J" hydro racers climbing over the windshield of their race boat just to get the underpowered hull on plane. I'm not asking for a 'bolt-n-go' class but as a new adult racer I'm admittedly attracted to the new 302ssh class just because of the parity it brings as a 'stock' class.

In closing, I'll submit that if the leadership of the sport is truly interested in rebuilding and maintaining membership, then promoting parity has to be a foundation of 'stock outboard' racing - right after safety and fun.

Thanks!!
-Brian Mitchell
with the support of Nate and Karissa (your excited new 92-S and 21-S racers!)

[pav225]

Brian,
Welcome to racing!! I am confident that you and your family will thoroughly enjoy it!

Thanks for the great input. Many of us have been around for a while, or grown up with the sport, so we we tend to miss or forget many of the things that attract people to racing in the first place. Please continue to speak up and remind us.

Paul,
Thanks for the input...and the great competition all year long. See you in Reno!

For the tuck rule, are you suggesting it for safety or to help make the speeds more equal ( level the playing field)?

Please keep the thoughts/ideas coming,
Mike

[mercguy]

level the playing field...

you want a better chance of "leveling the playing field"...........make the J classes all run the same spec boat, such as the ones being built in Seattle at the J HARM project or by a collaboration of the various J boat builders........the J class should not rely on "technological advances" to win races.......and I am not saying anything bad about all the hard work by the winning drivers and teams, but alot of the "other" J racers don't have that accessability, money or availabilty for custom boats, special built motors, etc........put it in the drivers hands, not the boat or motor builder........just a thought

[PittmanRacing]

Mike, thanks again for the conversation. In my quick cell phone read, I agree with Paul Price. In short, make the start to get competitive as easy as possible. The more specialized the boat, motor, and setup, the less attractive to new racers. Keep the boat specs the same as for AX, the natural transition for young drivers. On the hot pipe, George Stillwell has some great engine safe, ideas. On the tuck, make it identical to AX except height to get on plane more easily. Unlimited tuck means deep pockets can win with radical boats to take advantage of it. On pickles, make the rule identical to AX and/or A so boats and drivers can easily step up. All those boats have the same thickness challenge.

Paul

[Fast Jack]

J classes

The J classes are growing, We have been in J for 6 seasons and have competative boats. Having run Motors for 3 seasons before ring replacement I have not seen warped or overheated motors. This Class is working. But in the tradition of APBA you should make a bunch of changes and screw it up . Its not broken --Dont fix it ..

[G Stillwill]

As I have built more Merc 15's then anyone in the world other then Mercury and see what plugging does to them the way they are plugged now causing the wrist pins to run blue from heat and the bores go out of round because the water isnt running through the exhaust side of the blocks which is the hottest part of the motor. By plugging them at the power head as they should be will let the water flow as designed by Mercury and reduce wear and tear on the motor. The motors wont run any faster this way just run faster longer. As far as the tuck rule that is a safety issue at any speed especially with the younger less experianced drivers both in hydro and runabouts.

[Karl Dyle]

J class 2014

2014 is going to be a great year for Junior class racing, with the nationals being held in region 10. The HARM Junior program Project is what APBA should look to copy in all regions for increasing participation and attracting a new racing generation. Patrick Gleason is at the heart of this movement, and will lead APBA and Junior racing into our future.

Rule changes will only help the seasoned teams, if anyone at all. I strongly suggest Patrick makes his guide to online posting part of the new J class rules, as there have already been some infractions in this thread, just sayin.

As has been stated by another participating Junior class racing team, these "rules" as they are, or were up until 11/1/2013 have increased participation, and are working. A rule freeze, and a legitimate effort to evaluate, not just opinionate the state of Junior class racing with safety, and fun both being a goal, and fun means Junior racing should be more about dedication, determination and desire, and less about $$$.

Plug this, tuck that, how round exactly?........exactly.

[PAUL PRICE]

Safety First!

[pav225]

Thanks for all the good input.

I also really like the idea of locking in the rules...maybe for 3-5 years.

Mike

[brboatbuilder]

2014 J class rule changes

Subject: 2014 J class rule changes

As a sort-of-newbie to racing I would like to add my comments to the topic.
This past fall I finished building a Sorensen Scamp J hydro, bought an older J runabout and picked up a two-boat racing trailer for my eight and ten year old Ohio grandsons to try their hands at boat racing – assuming they like it and grandpa can afford it. I was alarmed at the idea of a rule change forcing the J class(es) to use a single boat design. It would likely eliminate them from entering APBA racing. You need to consider that entry level to nearly any sport includes the idea of limited available funds.
The less expensive OMC motor has virtually been obsoleted from J racing – how many potential racers have been eliminated because of this? Keep in mind that the OMC is readily available for $1200. to $2000. and has been replaced by the Merc for $3500 to $4500. I recall reading a post in hydroracer.net about two years ago wherein the writer said, “…let them [the new J racer] pay $4000. like I did for a new Merc to be competitive...”. That approach/attitude will surely reduce the number of new racers entering the sport. To increase the number of youngsters entering the sport we/you need to decrease the cost of entry, not increase it. Has it been seriously considered to slightly open the restrictor orifice on the OMC J to keep it competitive with the Mercury J and thereby rejuvenate the number of entries into the class with a less expensive alternative motor to the Merc. (Or does the fact that APBA is sitting on perhaps $40,000+. worth of Merc J motor inventory enter the resistance to change.)
Hoping that while you are changing J rules you keep some of these comments in mind.
Oh before I forget, ‘sort-of-newbie’, that is because I first raced A runabout and ended up in modified F hydro – but that was over 50 years ago.
brboatbuilder

[doc 35-0]

I took Braxton though the J-AX program. He learned to drive and for the most part , he had a good experience. Racing is not cheap and to be competitive in these classes you will need to spend. These kids need to be giving some leeway. To be disqualified for a 1/16 off on a tuck is just being a little too adult. There is no speed in that and I would be for doing away with the tuck rule. I had Braxton in NBRA in the Novice class as well. The cost is 1/3 of the the J-AX program. You can purchase a 20-C stock hydro and any of Yamato motors. A used 80 is the most common and these motors are ready available. A restrictor is used to slow the motor to 45-48mph range. The advantage is the boat can be used as the child grows and when he or she reaches 14, they move into the 20(A) class. The boat is much bigger and thus more forgiving.

[doc 35-0]

Novice class

Just a post note; the last two years 5 girls have gone though the Novice program, and they are moving in the A class. We have nearly full fields of these kids.

[pav225]

Subject: 2014 J class rule changes

The less expensive OMC motor has virtually been obsoleted from J racing – how many potential racers have been eliminated because of this? Keep in mind that the OMC is readily available for $1200. to $2000. and has been replaced by the Merc for $3500 to $4500. I recall reading a post in hydroracer.net about two years ago wherein the writer said, “…let them [the new J racer] pay $4000. like I did for a new Merc to be competitive...”. That approach/attitude will surely reduce the number of new racers entering the sport. To increase the number of youngsters entering the sport we/you need to decrease the cost of entry, not increase it. Has it been seriously considered to slightly open the restrictor orifice on the OMC J to keep it competitive with the Mercury J and thereby rejuvenate the number of entries into the class with a less expensive alternative motor to the Merc.

Good comments. We need to keep racing as affordable as possible.

I know the question was asked in the past about opening the OMC restrictor to make them more competitive in J. I'm not sure where that discussion is at these days.

Mike