Are Restrictor Plates REALLY Good For Racing?

[blueskyracer]

At least they are there and bitten, although some don't need to win, the experience and camaraderie is what they are after.
Thanks
Skeet

So true for most winning is not everything.. Seems the ones who have to win are the ones calling the shots

[krazy karl]

Wait So someone did do that? I was in that race.....

I am in favor of making the classes basic again, like you've mentioned.

It was done not in the interest of cheating but one of the guys who had never driven a CSR wan't to see what a CSR felt like. When we went into inspection he said he had taken the restrictor out and just went to his pit. That info didn't get to the judge's stand so he wasn't DQ'd. I was just filling the class so I didn't really care especially since I hadn't done any testing with that setup.
kk

[Big Don]

Ryan, no one plan is perfect I think you are close. So when I poke some holes don’t be offended, which I don’t think you would be, just wanted that out there. I happen to really respect your opinion. I see yourself, Donny Allen, Jesse Swain, Kyle Bahl, Marlee Hill, etc. as our future leaders and think you guys really do (or the most part) have it together and get it. I just can't give Donny to much credit just yet.

Dean you are real close. I agree almost 100% with everything you wrote on the other thread.

While I agree that we need to fix some classes, I don’t think restrictor racing is all that bad. I don’t think this is as big as an issues as others. If I’m wrong than I’m wrong. But if I go to the occasional dirt bike race, snowmobile race, stock car race… I have no clue what I’m watching and what’s under the hood or cowl, it’s not a big deal, I want to watch racing.

I think if you can purchase an engine and run it multiple times you get more bang for your buck.

I’m just talking stock, not touching the J classes for now.

Now with that said, I don’t think you can find parity. You may for a slight time get them close but something will raise to the top. People say it worked in the J class. I say, no it didn’t, it worked for a year or so when the Mercury was getting faster. But I’m ok with the slower engines running in a class if it puts them on the water. I just think we need an 1 engine of choice in a class to keep it from causing confusion.

Now we can tell a prospective person, you can buy an engine that fits your budget but this one engine is the engine of choice and will have a slight advantage.

Class Structure:

A Stock H & R- SIDEWINDER 15 & I would be ok with putting the Sidewinder 20S in also as long as it’s not faster. Plus Evinrude and Mercury. Need to give the Mercury a little boost here in my opinion. Why have the Mercury in here? I think it pulls that kid that comes in at 16 and starts in AX into the stock and gives him a place to race until they can decide on their next step.

B Stock H & R- SIDEWINDER 20S restricted (because it seems to work here) & 15CI Hot Rod. I think we need to give the Hot Rod’s a little speed advantage because it appears to me the Sidewinder is faster by about 2 MPH.

20ssH- Yamato 80 @ ½ inch & Yamato 302 & 102 but I would take the 302 to ¾ inch. (For reason discussed on other threads)

25R – As it is today with the 20CI Sidewinder it may need to be restricted.

C Stock H & R - Yamato 102, 302 and Merc 25xs (lower to 1 ½ with a restrictor)

D Stock H & R -Tohatsu and Merc

This gives the Yamato 4 classes and gives Sidewinder 5 classes

10 classes, plus the 4 J classes. 28 heats, if you have elims then great.


I agree that less classes would be great, but I don't believe it is going to happen either. I also think allowing step up’s is ok,I don’t see what it hurts. If a person wants to run the A Sidewinder in B also so what, it gets them on the water and it brings in more money to the club and it fills a class.

This is just my grand illusion while reading and eating lunch.

[Wild Bill 96D]

You guys are as bad as Congress, no wonder the sport is screwed up!

CSR4C You are the only one that is 100% correct in this thread.

[bill boyes]

Yes Darrell, It is a MESS.!!! Who is to blame?? We need a Czar.

[Big Don]

Honestly we are not much different than any other hobby or sport.

Anyone that's been involved with other organizations or clubs know that we are not that different with having issues, especially member drive organizations. I know NBRA doesn’t have any but most others do. (it's a joke so don't bash me for this, find somehting different)

I hate it too and wish we didn't fight but do you guys really think with our type A personalities that we are not going to have different opinions.

[Ron Hill]

Who Wants To Race?

Over the last few years I've paid very little attention to what's been going on in boat racing. I raced a bit, but when I wasn't there, neither was my mind. On catching up with what's been happening, one thing is plainly clear: This sport is a mess. The only thing is, it doesn't seem to be a mess at the races. It's a mess in the rulebook. At the races, I see new motors racing in every class, good competition, growth in classes where numbers were dwindling(region 4 now has a BSH class). And, yet, we've got this mess where you can run this motor in this class and that class, or this motor in those 3 classes, no you can't put that on a runabout, yeah, that's a B motor but good luck winning the Nationals unless you're Ed Hearn. There is no organization. You guys all have your microscopes zoomed in on each class, trying to make it viable, while the whole sport is just becoming a jumbled mess where the classes are all starting to look alike. We've got to take a step back, and look at the sport at a whole. We have to remember, the classes don't belong to the drivers. The classes belong to the sport, the drivers belong to the classes. And, similarly, it is the same with the motors, they, too, belong to the class. That is why I think it is paramount for the survival of the sport that we very quickly get some sort of clear definition of class structure. And, of course, I have an idea my self.

First, why restrictor plates are bad for racing:
-Confuses class identity(as I mentioned above).
-Makes scheduling complicated
-Makes inspection complicated
-Assumes 'one race isn't good enough' mentality(this can be addressed with format change)
-Makes tuning motors more difficult, giving advantage to more tech-minded racers-disadvantage new guy.

Class Structure:
A Stock-Evinrude and Mercury(the J motors, now this class is a viable stepping stone class again)
B Stock-15 cubic inch class-Hot Rod and SW 15S-allow SW to jack up which would probably make them comparable in speed and clear up some of the issues they've been having running deep.
20ss-20 cubic inch class-Yamato 80 and SW 20S-Despite what some have said, I(and I don't think I'm alone) don't see why two 20 motors shouldn't be pretty comparable. In racing the class I feel that they already are, parity would arise naturally.
C Stock-25 cubic inch class-Yamato 102, 302 and Merc 25xs(maybe lower to 1 3/8" height? or, this maybe the one case where you need a restrictor. I think I recall these classes running very similar lap times when the Mercs ran restricted)
D Stock-Tohatsu and Merc

This accomplishes, of course, a number of things:
-Makes the sport, and the classes, easier to talk about, and, therefore, easier to sell. The motors can be easily recognized and associated with their class.
-Gives racers a new motor option and a used motor option in every class.
-Gives each new motor it's own class to identify with, while still allowing the used option to remain competitive. This means getting the benefit of manufacturer competition without pitting two production motors against each other.
-Classing by cubic inch should be the easiest way to obtain parity. The way it's been tried, it seems, cubic inches always win out anyway, even with a restrictor. It seems the restrictors always get smaller and the bigger engine still wins.
-Scheduling is now easier, allowing the opportunity for a format change to give more 'bang for the buck', possibly as simple as adding laps, or maybe running 3 heats.
-Gives the opportunity to promote runabouts as a second class option.
-Gives EVERY class the opportunity for growth nationwide. We would no longer be just keeping classes alive. Every class has a clear future because every class has viable motor options. And, by classing by cubic inch(as racing should be done anyway!), it gives the classes identity beyond the motors we are racing now. It will ease this hardship next time around.
-It puts an end to the fluffing of classes with motors that don't belong, while giving every engine a viable class to run nationwide.

In order to sell the sport to new racers it has to be sellable. There has to be a clear picture of just what's going on. As it stands every class is on shaky ground except for C and D. INDECISION is KILLING this sport more than anything. We gotta zoom out, look at the big picture, think long term, because this fiddling around class by class is just tangling the web further and further. We have to fix the SPORT, once that is done, the classes will be just fine.

Peace.

When my son, Chad, started racing, Ernie Dawe suggested a restrictor plate for the OMC "A" that he and I had gotten OMC to build. Chad raced "J" from 9 years old til 14. We kept four OMC "A's" in our trailer. We loaned them to new drivers in both "A" and "J". Some of the OMC "A" motors that Chad raced are racing AXS and A Stock Hydro today. Our club needs the MONEY from entry fees so they can put on races. The Mercury seems to be the fastest AXS motor, but many OMC's race AXs with restrictors.

Marlee Hill is racing 20 SS Hydro and 45 SST. To race 20 SS Hydro she ned 75 pounds of lead. Somehow, I feel having Marlee driving a 20 with a restricter is better than adding 150 pounds on lead so she could race CSH.

Personally, I'd like to see the 302 the J, A, B, 20, 302 Stock nd C Motor...just using different restrictor plates.

Someone says the 302 has been around ten years.....and with very few broken parts.

ADD:

I have two new 20 SS Hydro and CSH Hydro drivers......running hem in 20 SS before CSH will given them some "SEAT TIME"....Injuries or fear of injuries is what cause people to leave boat racing!

[bill boyes]

Ron. How much lead is added to the 45?
How can you justify all those classes using the same motor?

[DiGia54D]

Ron...The 302 is pretty much in every class but J,A and D already. Also the 302 has been around for more then 10 years. Me, Sam Hemp and Cliff Johnson had the first 302 mods and that was 97 or 98. So It was in Stock a couple of years before that

[Big Don]

Bill I would ask you why not? I am not advocating getting rid of any engines but in the perfect world for me that would be awesome. It could be whatever power plant we wanted it to be.

I don't think it will happen but how could that not be the ultimate value of selling racing to a person. You can race your engine several times, your kid could race it in J, your other kid in A and yourself in C. Think of the value there.

In Stock I think you could do it with three engines easily. 45 – 62 range engine, 60 – 72 ish range engine, 75 plus engine. May never happen but the value is easy to sell then.

[pav225]

Ron...
How can you justify all those classes using the same motor?

For Sidewinder or Yamato?

[bill boyes]

Don, I do like you it's just I disagree with you often. The 302 motor is a GREAT value. I owned the first 302 on the west cost that was racing. Sold the motor for more than I paid for it and we ran it for 15 years.
I just do not think using the same motor in all classes is the right thing to do. Now I said ALL. Some is OK.

[Big Don]

Not sure I asked if you like me, LOL, but OK.

I don't think one engine would work for all stock classes either. So we agree on that.

I guess the planet is a better place now or at least racing is.

If only I could get Reed to agree on something...I'll have to work and think about that one. What happened to Scott anyways. Haven't heard from him for about a week.

Something must have happened to me a few years back, I even find myself agreeing with Ed more than I used to.