How do you measure ASH height now?

[14-H]

HE CHOOSE NOT TO LISTEN TO HIS COMMISION AND WENT TOTALLY AGINST THEIR WISHES TO DADDY WHO FOUND A WAY TO SLOW DOWN THE COMPETITION..

The last resort of someone who has nothing rational to offer: PERSONAL ATTACKS. Bring it on! I explained to my commission what I did and why and I'd do it all over again. By the way, you are mis-informed: this legislation has nothing to do with my competition. I do not race the A Stock Hydro class.

ADD: As I recall, Mr. Shaw, you were present in the meeting when I gave this explanation on Saturday morning; moreover, when I spoke to you on the telephone on Monday after the meeting, you didn't mention any of your complaints at that time. Interesting that you wait until now. BTW, I do appreciate the work you did in presenting the new D Engine to the SORC. I hope it will be a success for the class. Ed Hearn.

[ryan_4z]

First of all, speaking of exageration nullifying a point! I would like to point out, from a boat builders perspective that for one, modifying a boat to give it more lift is one of the easier things to modify on a boat.

Well, from a boat builders perspective I must ask, How many boats have you built? Because I would rather build a new boat from scratch than try to modify lift, and my father said the same thing. We have built a few dozen boats over the last couple of years, and he has been building boats for over 25 years. I don't know where you get the idea that that would be an easy thing to do.

EVERYONE out here is running at least 3/8" of tuck.

Obviously you have been missinformed on how extreme this setup is. There are people running tucked under 2".

I mention stuffing because that is the only logical form of accident that can come as a direct result of too much tuck..

Stuffing, surprisingly, is not really the problem here. The problem is when you back off of the throttle and the nose drops, the back of the boat is still being driven up out of the water. This results in some very wierd flips. There is also a high likelihood of the driver getting pitched away from his boat. Which only maked it even more dangerous.

I find it hard to believe a person was killed in CSH last year and THIS of all thing was the most pressing safety issue.

You quite obviously know nothing about what happened in Brandt's accident last year. That was an accident that could have just as easily occured in any class.

[Brian10s]

Heat and the SORC

The SORC and our Chairman have had their share of heat over this issue, most of it unprovoked and undeserved. Maybe it was because of the way they went about it? (the rule not the method)
Would things be different if the SORC passed a rule that stated the height will be measured via a straight line from the center of the propshaft to the nose of the gear case. This way, if you were tucked, height would be measured from the front. Kicked out, from the rear. You could still run your major tuck set up, but you would have to be real deep to do it. Would that have made a difference?

Is all this complaining a result of hindering/ outlawing the set-up you or your boat preforms the best at or because the speed/ preformance advantage that some had found is now gone? I think the answer is pretty clear. Because if anyone had to run 2 inches deep to be 2 inches tucked, we never would have had this rule or issue.

Here is my question, is this an action to close the loophole found in the height rule or not? Because if it is, then shouldn't it be for all classes (although the max tuck hasn't shown up there yet, what is to stop it?) And if we are to take our height rule serious, then why aren't we measuring from the front as well as the back? I'm sure the inspectors would find a way to do it, they have found a way to measure every other rule every other time.

So, how big would the complaint be if everyone (all classes with a height rule) would have to be measured via the front or rear, whichever was higher? How many would drop in height, to run tuck? You already have to if you run kicked out, why is tuck different?

Just some 2 cents and a question for all. After all, what is good for one, should be good for all, right?

Brian 10s

[ryan_4z]

THIS WAS THE BIGGEST RAILROAD JOB I'VE EVER SEEN. IT IS SIMPLY A CASE OF FATHER AND SON RAILROADING LAWS THRU UNDER THE SAFTEY ISSUE THAT WOULD NEVER PASS ON A BALLOT DUE TO COMMON SENSE..

You should feel lucky to have a category chairman who acctually gives a sh*t about the safetly of his fellow racers, and the future of the sport. For you to personally attack a man, (especially by making completly bogus allegations), for being that passionate about bettering our sport is entirely uncalled for. Under most cir***stances I would have a problem with this, but the fact of the matter is that something needed to be done. I have not heard from one single commissioner who had a problem with what was done. Mr. Heard felt that this was an issue that needed to be addressed immediatly. Any other member of the SORC could have done the same thing.

THIS RULE JUST WILL STOP PROGRESS IN BOAT DESIGN AND PROP ADVANCES TO MAKE SPEEDS QUICKER AND ALLOW FOR ADVANCEMENT...

If by progress you mean self-destruction and danger....then you are absolutely correct.



Lastly, Mr. Shaw, why do you seem to have such a problem with the SORC. In every post you make you seem to have something bad to say about them. What exactly has been done to you to make you so irrate?

[ricochet112]

Just the FACTS please

Ed, I said I WAS concerned about safety. This rule will make me more competitive now. Transom heights are a good idea in the slower classes that attract new and younger racers.
The analogy on knitting was supossed to be a joke, funny, ha ha. Let your guard down not everyone is attacking you. I didn't mean I was against kevlar or rescue regulations.
My point being the sport has been declining for a while now and unfortunatly, politics, insurance regulations, the threat of litigation is shaping our sport more than the racres are. Micro-managemnet and over-regulation will be a slow death to the sport.
All height checking should be exactly the same, same rules for all stock classes.

Steve W., Some facts would be great on the problems in ASH. The west coast has not seen the problems the east coast has seen in straight-away single boat accidents.
Who (or at least the ages ) has been crashing, where, what size of course, were the water conditions rough, did everyone that crashed have an extreme tuck?
More info on the situation would help explain alot!
Thanks

Mike Bartlett

[Dr. Thunder]

Extreme Tuck Stuff ... More or Less!

Good ol' days ...

[Dr. Thunder]

Or perhaps this ...

[jpro60]

some things to note.

First off, I would like to apologize if anyone has felt personally attacked over this issue... that was my last intention. Also, I was not trying to complain, or create this much heat over the issue. I understand that this is a small change, and that my case of 3/8" tuck is not an extreme one. My point was only that this DOES have an effect on a lot of people, at any level of tuck. Also, I will be the first to admit that I do not have a full understanding of the issue at hand, being as at the races I have attended this has not been an apparent issue. I would also like it to be known, that I was never on this forum to cause trouble, I simply wanted a reasonable, valid, explanation of the decision. My arguments were not for the sake of arguing, they were for the sake of pointing out misunderstandings in my head, and for clarification of why the decision was made. Though I will admit that I am still slightly confused and upset by this rule change, I will also admit that I do not have any experiences with the issue at hand. This, people is in all reallity a small rule change, though it's one I do not agree with, I do not have any ground for valid agreement or disagreement on the issue. The fact is, that we had already done our ASH testing for the pre '05 racing season, and it is slightly frustrating to have to go back out testing for a day at this point. BUT we do have the capability and time to do this testing. Though this is slightly frustrating to have a rule change one month before the western divisionals, (which I still don't understand why divisionals are BEFORE winter nats.) the rule change has the same effect on everybody.
Thank you all for trying to shed a little light on the issue,
Mike Perman 32-R
P.S. - Ed, the rule hasn't even been in existence for 3 weeks yet, lets hold off on the ideas of changing it again

[kws]

keep up the good work ED.
btw anyone that thinks they can do his job better. feel free to try to get yourself elected to his job next go around
allso as new racers we were told the hieght rule in A was deeper due to the more novice racers in the class is this true? and if it then isnt this just a logical extension of that rule .as the racers worked around it it has now been addressed.

lol it still seems as if some of the older a boats might be alot more competitive this year, true or not?
but then maybe thats what has some of you(not all) so steamed

[Racerkyle20]

New rule

I raced ASH for over 6 years and raced a tucked under setup with the Betu Spedding equipment we bought for most of that time. I believe that the rule was in the best interest of the class, even though I don't agree with it all that much. What is at stake is racer safty witch is the most important in a year that we lost a racer in a class we didn't think that kind of thing could happen. I know that was a different class, but the point is still the same that we must make this sport as safe as possible if we want to get more people into it. When i ran the tuck under set up when i was lighter i could go down a staight away in perfect water and the back end could break loose (that changed when i got to be a 170 lb A driver), but with an inexperinced driver that setup could be dangerous. I know a lot of people don't like it and i might be one of those people because it is a fast setup, but eventually someone will come up with a way to get faster and gain back what anyone might have lost because that's what we do in boat racing, we test and make our equipment go faster every year. That's my two cents.

Kyle Bahl
20-R

[orchy]

I've got to agree with Mike on that one. If your boats built with a light front end, and this new rule you will now force you to run with a set-up that will in theory lift the front even more (i.e. kicking it out), then my front is only going to get higher and thus, more dangerous? I guess I'd better get working on putting the funds together to buy a C outfit, and the lead i need to go with it!

[Abbott Racing]

We took my sons boat out of the trailer and slapped a motor on and did some quick checks to see how things looked. We currently run a tuck of 1/8 to and it doesn't change a heck of a lot. We may need to play with some props etc... but hey that's part of racing. I've go a new boat ready to deck with a lot more lift etc...... so it'll take a little more testing to find a way to go quicker.

I can't remember what Nascar crew cheif said it but the quote was "hey they made the rules so now we have to find the way to get the most out of the car with less. shouldn't take more than a few tests to figure a way around it!"

It just means a bunch of homework to make it go faster.

[orchy]

Hey, accually it isn't as bad as i first thought, i just remembered when they changed the J-Pro height and that meant cutting a big 2 inches out of the transom...This shouldn't change things that much.

[14-H]

Long Memory

Hey, Mike! Was this your post? Ed

John, Thank you VERY much for shedding some light on the situation. All I had to go off, was unfortunately limited, and subjective knowledge. Your insight has clarified things very well, and made at least some sense of the issue. Though I still do not agree with the change, I can see that the powers that be (like it or not) pull all of the strings. With this in mind, I can see why the decision was made. Thank you again for you insight
Mike Perman 32-R

[14-H]

Or how about this one?

****and that my case of 3/8" tuck is not an extreme one. *****

The current rule limits tuck to 1/2" from the front of the gearbox to the rear. This rule should not be affecting you at all unless you went nuts after hearing what others are doing with their setups after you made this post in February of last year. Ed.