Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[reed28n]

SW killing classes?

I dont believe the 20SW will work in the B class. Statistically, the 20SW helped the B class this year, but in the upcoming years, it will kill the B class in entirety
if the Hot Rod 15 is unable to compete.

Statistically the B class experineced growth this year that occurred outside of Region 6 and 7. Some racers that are committed to the B class procured a new SW.

By the Stock Outboard class minimum that used to be in place in the 90's, 20SSH was at risk, BSR and BSH were also at risk due to not meeting the minimum criteria for a National Class in Stock. In Biloxi Missisippi the Hot Rod hung on by a thread. Now we are seeing people entering the class in the east and pulling some Hot Rods out of storage. This trend will continue. We will have new motors available for new racers and Hot Rods available for reasonably priced used motors.

I believe new motors reset classes. Now instead of BSR drivers chasing two or three super Hot Rods they will never catch and cannot obtain, we have many fast BSR's that you have the option of buying a new motor to compete with.

[dholt]

Scott,

I don't know what data you are looking at, but when was 20ssH at risk of falling below 50 boats in the 90's?

My data goes back to 1997. There were 86 boats that year. I hardly doubt in the years preceeding 1997 there was a signifanct drop in that number.

You are correct about the Hot Rod classes. BSR and BSH have been well under 50 boats since 1997. Averaging in upper 20's to low 30's for both classes for the past 16 years.

I agree with you that a new engine is necessary since the dwindling supply of out of production Hot Rod parts has no potential for growth.

And this coming from someone who has been beached in BSR by the much faster restricted 20SW. Don't love it but I get it.

[reed28n]

Thanks for the data

Scott,

I don't know what data you are looking at, but when was 20ssH at risk of falling below 50 boats in the 90's?

My data goes back to 1997. There were 86 boats that year. I hardly doubt in the years preceeding 1997 there was a signifanct drop in that number.

You are correct about the Hot Rod classes. BSR and BSH have been well under 50 boats since 1997. Averaging in upper 20's to low 30's for both classes for the past 16 years.

I agree with you that a new engine is necessary since the dwindling supply of out of production Hot Rod parts has no potential for growth.

And this coming from someone who has been beached in BSR by the much faster restricted 20SW. Don't love it but I get it.

You can't argue with data..... what year was the restricted motor introduced into the 20SSH class? What was the intent of the commission then? I do not have the history on that change.

[STEVE FRENCH]

Edited and mailing my Fix proposal below once my ignorant azz figures out where.

Unpluging my computer and heading to Florida Dec 23rd till Feb 28th, the last day to renew my discounted APBA membership if .....I see some reason to.

Will be doing some testing at Carl Staron's South Florida Lake Apthorpe near Lake Placid in South Florida off US-27 South of Sebring in South Florida with our D-MOD. Join us!.....>19F

I will lose some friends over this but I have compromised......Can Y'all?

If this pizz's ya off .....Why?(Think about it)

Hope my "Nonsense" makes sense to a few?

If it makes "sense", Bring some turpentine and help me remove some tar and feathers at Spring Franklin Memorial weekend 2014 that I probably deserve but willingly accept because I enjoy and hope to continue kneel down boat racing under APBA!

Sincerely and respectfully(Sorta),
STEVE FRENCH 100N.....................

After much thought and compromised sleep over this and the amazing loss by a 1/2 foot, literally, of any chance the Steelers HAD to make it to the Super Bowl, I have completed my final draft of my National meeting proposals before the "Deadline" to submit. (I'm NOT going to submit at the meeting table!), and can finally be at peace, in my own mind, and return (hopefully) to uncompromised sleep. (Is uncompromised a real word? speel chek just underlined it in red)

Please hold the tar and feathers, Here is my proposed draft of "Nonsense" ;

Consider going back or get close to a A,B,C,D,F....W,X,Y,Z class structure both MODIFIED and STOCK as I have heard proposed many times in this "General Racing" forum.
Here's my opinion of how it might work; ..........(Dang that tar smells hot!)
A-class;
The 15 Sidewinder at current form till the OMC makes the natural or a designated date progression to MODIFIED(Formula-A where they are more competitive than following the compromised S/W anyway!) or ASX...qwyz.
How many years out of production did that happen with the KG-4/20H,Mark 15-55H, and now the 40 year old Y-80? WOW did they have a full, many decade STOCK life before progressing to MODIFIED!.....AND, Their STILL having unrestricted fun There!!....How many trophies can an "engine box" HOLD??
Both hydro and runabout.
Then they can dissolve this class's parity committee, pull the restrictor plates, and run at 3/4"-1 3/8" shaft spec or whatever height the class desires by vote. This will also make the S/W much easier to tune, live with, and most of all>>faster with bigger driver GRINS at a higher prop shaft height?

B-Class;
The 20 Sidewinder at current form till the 15 Hot Rod makes the natural or a designated date progression to MODIFIED.
WOW!!.. Nearly 60 years of Champion Outboard designed and Hot-Rod improved, B-STOCK DOMINATION??!!......Almost as OLD as my retired, decrepit, worn out azz!!.......AND, their STILL DOMINATING A-MOD........Give a few OTHERS a CHANCE to lead in STOCK??!!
Both hydro and runabout.
Then they can dissolve this class's parity committee, pull the restrictor plates, and run at 3/4"-1 3/8" shaft spec or whatever height the class desires by vote. This will also make the S/W much easier to tune, live with, and most of all >>faster with bigger driver GRINS at a higher prop shaft height?

C-Class; To the average spectator it has to be hard to tell the class difference because they all run within the same speed range, with the same (Y-302) engine, class flight after flight.
Currently 20SSH,302SSH,CSH,CSR, 25SSR Osy-400, etc? (Wow!, and we rant about too long a day?!)

C-hydros: Drop 20SSH name....302 and 102 run restricted with Y-80 till?......Then pull the restrictor at a designated date.

302 SSH: Promote this TRUE STOCK class!!!!..... Encourage current CSH "Heavys" to seal their STOCK powerheads, buy a STOCK gear foot, and join them if like myself, they have too much "lead" in their shorts to run with the C-"lightweights".

C-Runabout combines with 25SSR.........IF, ya really want a shorter day.

25SSH; Stays or goes to MODIFIED at a designated date.........."Whatever".

D-Class; No change needed.......Not broke.......Won't go there.

J-class; No change needed?......Maybe ask pro to give it up?

AXS....qwyz; Won't even go there.........

MODIFIED;

GO back to A,B,C,D,F,.......wxyz designations it worked for years why "Fix" it?

A-MOD; works....Don't fix it. Add the 15 Sidewinder MOD but don't restrict the H/R!!....Make the Sidewinder EARN domination!

B-MOD; keeps the current 25MODs where they will fade away (quietly?).

25MOD; gets the XS where it can run for the next 30-50(+) years unrestricted and Add the Sidewinder MOD where they both can run in smooth waters.

C-MOD; works for the moment.

D-MOD; works don't fix it.

FE-MOD; Look out for the Tohatsu

Last;
END last minute rule change proposals at the "National" meeting by removing this sentence in the bylaws;
6.2.1>"However, this shall not be construed to preclude the introduction and transaction at an Annual Meeting of other business not so specified."
Set a 1 -2 month submission deadline This will help slow down and allow debate and digestion by ALL affected members on future class ballot proposals including commissioners before it's heated, last minute, debate AT the meeting and here on H/R because of fragmented reports before the meeting minutes are available.
Consider holding the meeting in Mid December to get immediate tech changes posted ASAP if it affects the early upcoming season that in some regions start soon after New Years.
OR, hold the National meeting on a every 2 to 3 year schedule as recently suggested in "Forums" here on H/R.......BRAVO Howie!.
Special or class members demanded proposals can still be addressed (annually?) by: 6.3.3. Special Meetings

Benefits with the above class structure and ONE "bylaw" edit;
Everybody still "Has a place to race"(from Dana's STOCK promotional vid) in some compromised form.
Less engines per class.
Possibly shorter days with a condensed class structure.
5P and his "peeps" get a break with less parity issues and yearly rule changes to tech.
Dana can stop pacing the beach and possibly smile.
EVERYONE is onboard with any proposal at the National meeting table!

Everybody eventually? >>"HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY" (From "Duck Dynasty"/Phil Robertson)

Or, Continue as-is, whine and bash here eternally, and....... watch NBRA/AOF.........> grow

Click...print...submit...and RUN STEVE!, Run! (From "Forest Gump")...PS is there a link of addresses for all commissioners to mail this to in ADVANCE of the National meeting?


My of "Nonsense"........Goodnight, sleep tight (Hopefully).......Dang, 3:59 am!!

[pav225]

Bump to top.

I think we can hit 50,000 views by year end.

[blueskyracer]

and this is something to be proud of???

[Apachemax]

and this is something to be proud of???

Has it been done before (in this sort of timeframe) ?
Look, im coming up with excuses to promote this thread; reminds me of all the excuses i hear for putting the carb on the side...

[tcf284]

it really should have been titled don't let this thread be killed lol

[blueskyracer]

We can stop it at 49999 for you all.. I could go on and on like this thread about what it has to do with promoting racing and the interest of new folks considering coming into this sport..

[pav225]

50,000

Great point. Kill the Thread.

Let's go for 50,000 on a positive topic!

[daveracerdsh]

Thread

Mike...I respect the heck out of you and Big Don.... but...if you had been in on the SORC conference call Tuesday you might have seen the damage this proposal thing is doing. We have a whole region (5) that does not even want to appoint or elect a commissioner because if this issue. I could be pharaphrasing, but it was something along the lines of why should I spend the money to go to Reno when something like this happens....Don was in on the call if memory serves me correct. Again, I may not be totally correct on this, I just remember it being said. If I was not studying for a work exam I would look back at the notes of the meeting. Oh ya....merry Christmas to everybody! Dave

[pav225]

Dave,
I firmly believe that what we are doing is in the best interest for 20ssH and Stock Outboard.

It's unfortunate that it takes a Petition to get it done, but there really weren't many (if any) options left.

20ssH is one of the largest, if not the largest, class in Stock. There is no upside to having the SW in the class, and the risk of hurting the class far outweighs any potential upside that no one has been able to quantify.

See you in Reno.

All the best,
Mike

[reed28n]

Firm beliefs

Dave,
I firmly believe that what we are doing is in the best interest for 20ssH and Stock Outboard.

It's unfortunate that it takes a Petition to get it done, but there really weren't many (if any) options left.

20ssH is one of the largest, if not the largest, class in Stock. There is no upside to having the SW in the class, and the risk of hurting the class far outweighs any potential upside that no one has been able to quantify.

See you in Reno.

All the best,
Mike

Firm beliefs by a few members is not always what is best for the long term of the whole of the membership. I think Ed Hearn unwound the few member thing some years ago.... when a few members began to take away the rights of the members. Now, the unfortunate thing is that it does not take a petition to get things done.

The petition is a slippery slope and against the Stock Outboard rules, the precedent set and now confirmed supersedes the Stock Outboard rule for all classes and all rules adopted by the SORC , the BOD should not waste their time even looking at rules of categories any more the should just govern APBA the way they see fit.

[pav225]

Scott,
I'm not really interested in the self centered beliefs of Scott Reed.

Again, what the petition does is allow the 20ssH drivers to vote on the present and future of their class. We played by the rules and are putting the vote to the drivers.

I'm anxiously awaiting another ridiculous reply from you...while still waiting for you to name a new driver as a result of your fantastic plan.

See you in Reno,
Mike

[pav225]

My mistake, "self-righteous" is a more appropriate word.