Don't let Region 6 kill Sidewinder

[B Walker]

Now we are really talkin' Cuba Gooding Jr

The most recent posts are starting to get at the heart of the problem: it is not the petition it is the process.

The petition process is flawed because it allows year to year changes by the current drivers of an existing class no matter how absurd and short sighted.

This by definition never allows technology growth (new motors) within the existing class structure and also suppresses all forms of innovation. Well, not all forms because it encourages some innovative ways of "working around" the original intent of Stock Outboard by allowing modification of scarce parts or inclusion of OEM parts and/or allowing modification of the manufactured outboard to ensure legacy motors are viable. I do not share this vision of what Stock Outboard is and generally put those concepts into Modified Outboard.

The petition process itself actually creates a situation that the existing motors can never be replaced by anything new until a majority that owns that next new thing create a quorum and vote the tired aluminum out. This never occurs because the old tired aluminum always has the numbers to petition a change that ensures the suppression of the new aluminum. (Catch-22)

The petition process essentially ensures status quo without ever taking into context the future of the class or the sport.

To bring this home to the question of the day: Please ask yourself how does the elimination of the SW-20 help either the sport or the class?

As long as we are discussing the future of a class or the sport I would like to point out that there is nobody in the entire structure of APBA that is tasked with the responsibility of promoting and advancing the sport.

Also, there is no process to remove a class from Stock Outboard since the 12 boat rule got eliminated.

With no clear vision of what Stock Outboard is, there is no clear vision of where Stock Outboard is going.

BW

[csh2z]

Seems to me that the SW was behind the rope of the tow boat in more heats than not during the 20 races... real threat! look out yamato owners...

FYI - Due to circumstances beyond my control, all of my testing has been limited to testing at the race site or during actual races. We were experimenting with carburator settings and props that hadn't previously been tried, some things worked and some didn't (that's when we got towed in). Howie may remember after one heat when Ryan came in he noticed the enrichment valve was up, we new that, and learned something there.

Most importantly however, every Sidewinder there performed flawlessly throughout the weekend. I'm sure anybody that was paying attention to the performance of the Sidewinders will recognize that as a fact.

[reed28n]

Right decisions

The SORC along with Race Committees' makes good decisions sometimes and bad decisions sometimes.........when REALLY BAD decisions are made it is up to the members to react and correct those decisions!

I was on the 2010 Commission and watched this debacle unfold in Seattle and my opinion did not win the day then. I am glad the 'right' decision is finally being implemented. Of course this is just my opinion.

Matt,

You currently have a path to pursue this "right decision" within the category and within the current structure, without going to a petiton.

That is the whole point of this post in the first place, all the other talk is to poke holes in the logic behind the premise of the petition. And Jeff is right.... Tohatsu? not in OMC A? not in by petitin or vote of current drivers\ (at the time of introduction)

Look forward and spend your energy revising parity rule and focus on parity. The motor is already in the class.

Thats all...

[Big Don]

So what you are saying is we have a mechanism in our by-laws that the members can use to make sure they are heard, but they shouldn’t use it?

I can keep repeating that it is causing people to sit back and not make decision... The members of the class along with people that do a lot of promoting, see the engine being in there as an obstacle.

Parity with two complete engine platforms is very hard to make work, unless you are constantly making changes. All that does is cause confusion, cause people to work harder and spend more money. We have to have 1 engine in every class that we can clearly tell people, this engine is the engine of choice, the other engines are close and cost X, but to win consistently you will probably need X. If I spent $4800.00 on a Sidewinder and you kept changing stuff so I have to retest every prop, have them tweaked and so on, I would get real tired and go away. Now seeing how we personally love to test (we are hoping to go again this weekend) it is not a problem for us personally. But the large majority of racers don’t/can’t work that hard for whatever reason, time, families, work, other commitments, kids, sports, finances, the list is long. There are very few of us that have the disease so bad it consumes our lives. Look at the numbers, 45% don’t race a class more than 3 times. They DO NOT want to spend $1000.00’s to keep racing, work that hard, put the commitment in, etc. We have to think of large majority of our racers when making decisions. This is not my feelings, this is what we hear all the time in our area. Maybe we are different in Region 7, but I doubt it.

Here are some statistics as of today. They pretty much run the same year over year and will change slightly at the end of the race season in a couple weeks.

319 drivers raced Stock
319 drivers raced 3358 total times
Those 319 drivers raced 608 classes, 1.9 classes per driver
137 (43%) drivers race 1 class in Stock
Only 17% of the 608 raced 10 or more times
60% raced a class 6 times or less
78% raced a class 8 times or less
12% raced enough to be eligible for high points with 12 races or more, 7% raced 14 times or more which is our high point number.
Now we could argue that everyone that raced 1 time was just a class filler. This is not true but let’s just assume they are. The percent that raced 12 times or more only goes from 12% to 15%.

These numbers are only to help show, that the large majority of our racers, are not racing as much as the few of us that do. We are the minority, we have to start thinking about all of them. They are the ones that help us with our addictions.

If what you are saying is, that we should have went to the SORC and negotiated more, than let’s just say that is what we are doing. It’s just not the way some of you wanted it done. We're just trying to make sure the large majority are heard.

[daveracerdsh]

Scary

The message that big Don posted in my view should be a sobering wake up call for everybody involved. 319 people raced stock last year? And out of that 319, how many had stock as their primary catagory? Whatever we do from here on out should focus on that number....319. One in one million people in the United States raced a stock outboard this year...and we are fighting over keeping a motor in a class? Holy cow....sure seems like a whole lot of wasted energy to me. Just sayin' boys and girls, just sayin'.

[25xs seeya!]

So what you are saying is we have a mechanism in our by-laws that the members can use to make sure they are heard, but they shouldn’t use it?

I can keep repeating that it is causing people to sit back and not make decision... The members of the class along with people that do a lot of promoting, see the engine being in there as an obstacle.

Parity with two complete engine platforms is very hard to make work, unless you are constantly making changes. All that does is cause confusion, cause people to work harder and spend more money. We have to have 1 engine in every class that we can clearly tell people, this engine is the engine of choice, the other engines are close and cost X, but to win consistently you will probably need X. If I spent $4800.00 on a Sidewinder and you kept changing stuff so I have to retest every prop, have them tweaked and so on, I would get real tired and go away. Now seeing how we personally love to test (we are hoping to go again this weekend) it is not a problem for us personally. But the large majority of racers don’t/can’t work that hard for whatever reason, time, families, work, other commitments, kids, sports, finances, the list is long. There are very few of us that have the disease so bad it consumes our lives. Look at the numbers, 45% don’t race a class more than 3 times. They DO NOT want to spend $1000.00’s to keep racing, work that hard, put the commitment in, etc. We have to think of large majority of our racers when making decisions. This is not my feelings, this is what we hear all the time in our area. Maybe we are different in Region 7, but I doubt it.

Here are some statistics as of today. They pretty much run the same year over year and will change slightly at the end of the race season in a couple weeks.

319 drivers raced Stock
319 drivers raced 3358 total times
Those 319 drivers raced 608 classes, 1.9 classes per driver
137 (43%) drivers race 1 class in Stock
Only 17% of the 608 raced 10 or more times
60% raced a class 6 times or less
78% raced a class 8 times or less
12% raced enough to be eligible for high points with 12 races or more, 7% raced 14 times or more which is our high point number.
Now we could argue that everyone that raced 1 time was just a class filler. This is not true but let’s just assume they are. The percent that raced 12 times or more only goes from 12% to 15%.

These numbers are only to help show, that the large majority of our racers, are not racing as much as the few of us that do. We are the minority, we have to start thinking about all of them. They are the ones that help us with our addictions.

If what you are saying is, that we should have went to the SORC and negotiated more, than let’s just say that is what we are doing. It’s just not the way some of you wanted it done. We're just trying to make sure the large majority are heard.

So why have X ??

[Big Don]

Because Y was not available.

[runabout333]

319 is a sad number.. Sometime in the late 80's,, I attended the Stock Outboard
Nationals in Wakefield. I was Mr. Mom to a bunch of 17-20 year olds that
had their hopes on being a National Champion. They raced and I fixed them all
breakfast,,, did the morning dishes and all of the day's before laundry. Then I would head to the lake. That specific year there were 60 ASH's and almost that many ASR's.
Lets just say over 75 people would be a modest number from one class. What has happened, I do not know.. Can many of you remember those years?? They were great years.. One class,,, one motor. It worked back then.. I do understand all of your
concerns as one class,,,one motor isn't the case anymore.. Please sit back and
do the best you all can to work this situation out. I do not have a dog in this fight at
all.. But I have purchased a used CSR and plan on buying a 302 and only race one class.
It could be in region 7 and most likely with the NBRA group. I am 63 years old and
will not worry about being a HOC,,, national champion nor US-1. I will get to rekindle
old friendships and and have a great time chasing someone..

[Big Don]

Welcome back.

[daveracerdsh]

I agree

Welcome back. While we do seem disfunctional....we are a nice group of people. There is just not as many of us as there was when you were Mr. mom. Dave

[HydroKyle93R]

I don't believe in parity...

I don't believe in the "spirit of the rules."

and I don't drive 20ssH.





Good luck: may the most deserving side prevail!

[14J]

the message that big don posted in my view should be a sobering wake up call for everybody involved. 319 people raced stock last year? And out of that 319, how many had stock as their primary catagory? Whatever we do from here on out should focus on that number....319. One in one million people in the united states raced a stock outboard this year...and we are fighting over keeping a motor in a class? Holy cow....sure seems like a whole lot of wasted energy to me. Just sayin' boys and girls, just sayin'.

amen!

[DiGia54D]

319 is a sad number.. Sometime in the late 80's,, I attended the Stock Outboard
Nationals in Wakefield. I was Mr. Mom to a bunch of 17-20 year olds that
had their hopes on being a National Champion. They raced and I fixed them all
breakfast,,, did the morning dishes and all of the day's before laundry. Then I would head to the lake. That specific year there were 60 ASH's and almost that many ASR's.
Lets just say over 75 people would be a modest number from one class. What has happened, I do not know.. Can many of you remember those years?? They were great years.. One class,,, one motor. It worked back then.. I do understand all of your
concerns as one class,,,one motor isn't the case anymore.. Please sit back and
do the best you all can to work this situation out. I do not have a dog in this fight at
all.. But I have purchased a used CSR and plan on buying a 302 and only race one class.
It could be in region 7 and most likely with the NBRA group. I am 63 years old and
will not worry about being a HOC,,, national champion nor US-1. I will get to rekindle
old friendships and and have a great time chasing someone..

At The 87 or 88 Wakfield Nationals..Not sure of year. I was in the patrol Boat with Alex Jennings for the ASH elims...They were all DAY. 60+ASH/ASR 40+ CSH 40+ 20ssh.... Now I have alot of the elimination heats on paper from then because it was my first nationals... I looked at some not long ago. Its very hard to compare now from then...mainly because over 50% of those drivers are not involved with racing anymore.
As for this Nationals this year COMBINED stock and Mod everyone was fired up about having over 300+ entries....Well They ran something like 26 classes. Not to much to be excited about.

[Matt Dagostino]

Troy

amen!

Troy.........missed you in Tabor City and Millville.

This 'issue' is just a 'housekeeping' matter being corrected by the members. The Banter here on Hydroracer is part of a health 'transparent' process to air various views and interact over the world wide web.

Because you and Dave Anserson have an opposing view you guys are attempting to belittle the matter. Oh well, bet you are glad Sidewinder didn't get a Model 30ci built aimed at CSH. Just sayin

[Big Don]

Here is the bottom line to everyone *****ing about the process...

Leaving the sidewinder up to a vote IS process. Nothing is more democratic than leaving it up to a vote. How much more fair can one make it?