Boat Racing's Direction / Survival

[raceright]

You have outlined the reason for new motors, it resets the scale. We all have the same starting point. The 302SSH class will have a level playing field for a while but eventually stuff will gravitate toward faster or more competitive options..... it starts as everyone is on the same playing field then a guy has a perceived advantage and people start chasing that advantage.... boat, helmet shape, lead placement, fin placement , it could be ANYTHING.... next thing you know we are all chasing the same couple guys. The answer at that point is reset the platform again.

While many will take issue with replacing equipment it will keep everyone competing... a few fast motors or rigs in a class stunts its appeal.....if you put twelve equal ping pong balls in a bowl and you can't tell them apart ill them come out? You have powerball **** MILLIONS!!!!

I still maintain your greatest expense is getting to 12 races.....just get a motor that gives you a chance to win (it might be a brand new one). Why spend all that money to go all that way to know you won't compete week after week.

And if it isn't in the motor why then do some many guys that run our front go through so many motors? or spend some much money re machining perfectly engineered new motors? Why? because it counts. NEW motors allow everyone any opportunity or equal chance at the same horsepower...

So well put Mr Reed. Out with the old and in with the new. Old racers like old boats and engines take a long time to go to the happy Hunting grounds when people have no vision--or just want it to stay like it is and complain.

I for one know that stock outboard competition is more about the equipment than any other category. After this many years so many drivers take great pride in there racing championships believing there skills in a boat is how they achieved them....If ya never have equipment that can put you out front you will never know how to drive,, New equipment is the only way to level the field completely. It gives a novice a chance to technically catch-up.. and then he can learn how to drive.

[glen wesanko]

Stock outboard

I like the rule freeze idea as I think it can eliminate a lot of the "tweaking" of rules that seem to so upset people. Our Region 10 Novice C program is very competitive and drawing for props each heat completely negates the potentially long and expensive process of buying and re-working propellers. We have a well organized prop box containing about a dozen two blade wheels ( Thanks Mr Pinner ). We have found these props to perform within a very close tolerance and wheels outside the norm are re worked to average spec. Also we run these two blades at 3/4 " and same setup as C-Stock with no adverse handling or cooling issues.Keep it SIMPLE. It works. My thanks again to the guys in Seattle Outboard Association who have all worked hard to make this class the sucess it has quickly become. JGW 1CW

[Dave M]

Ron

I've just about finished mark Levin's book called "The Liberty Amendments". Mark outlines what is needed and how to do it. I doubt if his ideas go anywhere but the ideas are great.

My first question to you is HOW do you implement your 10 ideas?

My second question is how long (From start to finish) is an average NBRA racing day?

Ron,

We already implemented most of these points. I think you can read between the lines here...

[Dave M]

Propnuts

I have a hard time believing in a "member driven" organization people get "pushed around", can you explain or give examples? Keep in mind that making and enforcing rules is a basic job of APBA, so that should never be construed as pushing people around.

Well, a recent one is the involvment of Crown Partners. I seem to recall a STRONG debate over how this was implemented without any communications to the bulk of the members. How is that being member driven ?

I think the safety rules that get implemented right before a race, seems to be one for stock outborad right before Winter nationals each year. Again, do a small search here on H/R and I think you will find a lot.

There are a lot of examples I can provide, and I am sure folks will argue (debate) about how I am wrong. But the fact remains, APBA has declined its membership over the course of the last 30 years or so. That is a fact you can't argue. Obviously if someone challenged APBA with certain things, it was not well received........ or the membership would not have declined so much. I can remember a few folks challenging the internal workings at APBA a few times over the last 20 years or so. Someone tell me where I can see a detailed P&L for APBA for the fiscal year 2012 & 2013 when available ? Is it as member driven and transparent as it needs to be with todays target market of racers ? If you think so, continue on and we will just see where this lands.

[Hunter]

As an eternal optimist, I hope this thread stays active. Eventually, some great ideas will be gleaned from all the hyperbole. The Fishers Landing Racing Club is well worth a case history study for insights on the decline of our sport.
I can remember attending a club meeting with my father back in the mid 50s...every seat in the local fire hall was occupied. Region 2 had as many events in those days as there are now on the whole east coast. Boat racing history is as rich in northern NY as it is anywhere. The now world famous Clayton Antique Boat Museum is right here and has a good representation of boat racing history as well as the bi-annual Race Boat show. As recently as the early 2000s, the club had enough active participants that we could probably have had a race and not worry if no one else showed up.

Today, we struggle to put on our one event. Without the participation of our Canadian friends, ( many not APBA members ), the Crystal Lake race would be a disaster. My son and I are now the only local members who actually travel and try to get in twelve races a year.

I'm not hung up on the "what-happened " thing. I want to know what can be done to revitalize the sport in our region. The crux of the problem is the same old thing....no new members and lost old members.

If our club was capable, I'd like to do a "fun-run" like the thing in Pennsylvania with a focus on having a couple loaner rigs...especially Js, so that anyone with an interest could get a ride. It is hard to expect people to catch our bug if they never get a full exposure !

[Dave M]

Rides

As an eternal optimist, I hope this thread stays active. Eventually, some great ideas will be gleaned from all the hyperbole. The Fishers Landing Racing Club is well worth a case history study for insights on the decline of our sport.
I can remember attending a club meeting with my father back in the mid 50s...every seat in the local fire hall was occupied. Region 2 had as many events in those days as there are now on the whole east coast. Boat racing history is as rich in northern NY as it is anywhere. The now world famous Clayton Antique Boat Museum is right here and has a good representation of boat racing history as well as the bi-annual Race Boat show. As recently as the early 2000s, the club had enough active participants that we could probably have had a race and not worry if no one else showed up.

Today, we struggle to put on our one event. Without the participation of our Canadian friends, ( many not APBA members ), the Crystal Lake race would be a disaster. My son and I are now the only local members who actually travel and try to get in twelve races a year.

I'm not hung up on the "what-happened " thing. I want to know what can be done to revitalize the sport in our region. The crux of the problem is the same old thing....no new members and lost old members.

If our club was capable, I'd like to do a "fun-run" like the thing in Pennsylvania with a focus on having a couple loaner rigs...especially Js, so that anyone with an interest could get a ride. It is hard to expect people to catch our bug if they never get a full exposure !

Hunter,

Your idea has been around for ages. Give someone a ride and they get hooked fairly quick. Let them drive a rig and they really get the hook set. This is where we have to reel them in. I agree with you 100% on lets move forward and get it built up. The sad part about your idea is, anything you want to provided for a fun run, will have to provided by you. The roganization is not going to help. So if you want a couple rigs around for folks to drive, it will be up to you for financing, and transport, and recruiting. Oh, and the retention part, most likely up to you as well. MHRA does a great job in Michigan with this. Several rigs are available at a race for folks to drive. And look at the result, growth in Region 6. The retention part is fought hard by a couple guys within the MHRA, hence the 302SS weight change debate. They fought hard to keep it the same, and won. It saved them two new drivers from quitting.

Bottom line is, if you want growth, we have to take it on ourselves, with our own resources. If you can swing it, I encourage you to purchase a CSH rig and haul it to every race. let spectators drive it. Restrict it for the kids, and unrestrict it for adults. But get them in a boat and let them have fun.

[B Walker]

Same 'ol, same 'ol

I have come to realize that just getting someone a ride is not good enough to create the change required to stop the slow bleeding off of the membership base. It helps, but ambassadors to this sport have been doing that for a long time now and all it has done is provide a revolving door of new drivers for crafty veterans to unload sub-par equipment on to. I am hopeful programs like the 302SSH sealed motor effort will break this cycle.

Real Change

Real change does not happen until the National Meetings are less about technical rules and more about structure and process. Most of the time on the agendas for the National Meeting are about Tech. That's a problem

Real change does not happen until representation at the National Meetings is equally distributed to represent a roughly equal number of racers. 50% of the Stock Outboard membership lives in two regions. The rule regarding number of commissioners per region actually makes the representation less equal. It just makes more people available to cut deals with the power brokers.

Real change does not happen when racers don't participate in elections. Ballot returns are regularly under 20% participation rates. The first question I ask someone complaining about this or that ballot item is "Did you vote on it".

Most important of all....

Real change does not happen until the membership base elects representation that will advocate for real changes. No more "trailerbox protectionism". Credit to Matt Dagostino for the trailerbox protectionism quote.

Brad Walker

[D_Allen_III]

The problem with the term trailer box protectionism is that people throw that out to someone, who happens to be protecting their equipment when they vote on something or voice their opinion on something that they truly believe is what is best thing for boat racing. It has somehow become a way to discredit what the person is saying even though 95% of their arguments are based on logic, facts and reason. You can then throw that term at someone and it makes their entire argument seem selfish when it fact it might be what is best for racing and has plenty to back it up.

As soon as people start accusing one another of protecting their trailer boxes it becomes a pissing match that gets decided by people that (1) don't really care either way which is how we have half of the dumb rules we currently have, (2) people who get manipulated easily because they often times don't want to offed people, or (3) the group that has more geographic peers they can swing in their favor. This is the problem our commissions have faced forever and the reason why we make choices based on speculations and pipe dreams and have a rule book hardly anyone knows. Well, I guess (4) Ed Hearn can be to blame for something in there too.

[csh2z]

We need a long term plan and a means of maintaining it. That is the primary thing that should be on the National Meeting agenda.

[B Walker]

Time to make a new plan, Stan

The problem with a written, long term plan and executing the strategy involved in the plan is that people with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo find it easy to pick it apart to find an area of controversy or even create a controversy that doesn't exist because of what is not in a written plan.

The people then representing the status quo demagogue the issue. It does not matter if the status quo offer a counter plan because professional political maneuvering does not require an answer to a controversy it simply requires being on the majority side of an issue when it comes to a vote.

The majority of racers do not look at Hydroracer, don't know what the issues are, and don't really care enough about the decline in the sport to do very much about it. Especially if that effort requires more time or money from them.

I am not saying a written plan is not a good idea. I think it is great. I just have concerns if it is good politics. Simply said, would a written plan make unengaged joe average boatracers become rabid fully engaged reformists? I know it is painful to point out that it didn't last time it was tried.....

In a member run organization no significant change will occur until the membership insists on change. So the question becomes; how do you create a desire for change in the hearts and minds of the membership?

The actual structure of APBA has changed very little since 1908 and not at all that I know of in my lifetime. At the root of the problems are a decision making structure that is so difficult and time consuming to work within that often short term thinking and expediency are given more weight than long term consequences.

I would like to see a discussion of what a modern and streamlined APBA leadership and decision making structure would look like.

Brad Walker

[B Walker]

The problem with the term trailer box protectionism is that people throw that out to someone, who happens to be protecting their equipment when they vote on something or voice their opinion on something that they truly believe is what is best thing for boat racing. It has somehow become a way to discredit what the person is saying even though 95% of their arguments are based on logic, facts and reason. You can then throw that term at someone and it makes their entire argument seem selfish when it fact it might be what is best for racing and has plenty to back it up.

As soon as people start accusing one another of protecting their trailer boxes it becomes a pissing match that gets decided by people that (1) don't really care either way which is how we have half of the dumb rules we currently have, (2) people who get manipulated easily because they often times don't want to offed people, or (3) the group that has more geographic peers they can swing in their favor. This is the problem our commissions have faced forever and the reason why we make choices based on speculations and pipe dreams and have a rule book hardly anyone knows. Well, I guess (4) Ed Hearn can be to blame for something in there too.

Hi Donny,

You are right "trailerbox protectionism" has become a derogatory buzzword for anytime someone makes a vote on a piece of equipment they happen to also own. Unfortunately there are too many examples of issues that have proven to be not in the best interests of the membership in the long term that were voted on by people that happened to own the equipment in question.

I see this as a deficiency in the entire process, not in the individual that has to vote one way or another on an issue that involves equipment he happens to also own.

BW

[bill van steenwyk]

BRAD: Regards your quote............. I would like to see what.......

...... a discussion of what a modern, streamlined APBA leadership and decision making structure would look like .....(end quote)


It already exists. See US Title Series. And while you examine it keep in mind that for various and myriad reasons they are no longer associated with APBA.

[Ron Hill]

1938 Scrapbook

We need a long term plan and a means of maintaining it. That is the primary thing that should be on the National Meeting agenda.

Someone sent me a scrapbook that started in 1938 and basically ended in 1946. It is quite thick and I only read a page or two every time I "Sit and think". But as I read, I say, "WOW"....Where did we go wrong? EXAMPLES: Lodi Wine Tasting and Boat Races Isleton Asparagus Festival and Boat Races...Just some examples of Boat Race names.

There are thousands of things to do besides boat race, but looking at our history, I think we could learn a thing or two.

I think a National Meeting agenda item should be: What race is the most fun to attend? And WHY???

We have a class called COR in California, with 10-20 boats. We race all year, but the ENDURO in October is what we all talk about and we want to win.

When we raced on TV, we had one race, every weekend, 39 weeks in a row, that wasn't just five laps.. We had: Father/Son Races, tag team races, trophy dash (four fastest times raced with inverted starts). Winner got a trophy and a TV interview.

I really don't think I have all the answers, but let me say this: COR has Chad Hill, Mike Quindazzi Jr, JJ Gibbs as the only 2nd or third generation drivers. Everbody else, except Rod Zapf, is a new driver. New is good!

Dave Rankin and Fred Bowden both started racing is smaller (CHEAP) classes.

302 Super Stock racing is a good start.

An "ALL OUT" effort by APBA to grow the business needs a serious discussion.

Probably rambling here: Fred Hauenstein invited me to the National Meeting in Reno....The only thing I've ever accomplished at at National Meeting is drinking with friends.

Personally, I think APBA is hitting "Critical Mass".

[reed28n]

Part of the issue

...... a discussion of what a modern, streamlined APBA leadership and decision making structure would look like .....(end quote)


It already exists. See US Title Series. And while you examine it keep in mind that for various and myriad reasons they are no longer associated with APBA.

I think the people that left APBA are contributing to the decline in all of boat racing. I have heard from many that they leave because of politics or because cost. Then look back as an actual solution. I feel racing would be stronger if all that energy leaving was used to fight for staying. And all the time spent dividing to get to greener pastures was focused on helping to drive a solution with one organization. Yup cost would go down and we could find better solutions if we all sanctioned up under one group.

[reed28n]

Need balance

APBA needs a core of National classes that are promoted. Pick 15 or 20 from all categories, pick something everyone can access and that becomes the base.
Some will be less expensive some will be more expensive, but something for everyone.

Next do not limit what can be run locally. All categories have regional participation in classes that people enjoy racing a few times per year.

Promote a national program. Idea for kneel down: Every sanction everywhere would run JH every race day at 11:00 am and CSH at noon and 250h at 1:00 and 750mr at 2:00. Everywhere-every race. Plug in local classes around "National" classes that we have brochures and a display trailer with available power plants available for purchase.