Boat Racing's Direction / Survival

[doc 35-0]

Racing nbra

Cost of APBA of their ins. Is that the risk is spread out between their divs. The complaint of the stock and mod. Div. is their risk is low. When drivers are the sponsors(entry fee pays the ins.) there is very few spectators. Little or no advertising to attract spectators. So the risk should be low.
Rules for our sport are made by drivers in both org. NBRA has one rule that is different that make the race more interesting. They don't time the heat(except champ. Race) thus they can win by a foot. Points are awarded per heat in APBA the points are given for two heats. Thus you must win by the shortest time in the first heat. This is not a problem if you(the driver) is the sponsor. It is a problem if you have a sponsor that pays you for the entertainment value. When talking with APBA members they are very happy with their rules. NBRA members like the low entry fees and the tow money. Most APBA members spend less money on fuel as the races are more centralized. One calculation shows that a NBRA club saves $15,000. Over a APBA club in a 5 race schedule. Both org. Are happy with their status.

[Hunter]

I have long suspected that Stock and Mod outboards are subsidizing the several high risk divisions of APBA. Being a construction business man, I have considerable experience with various forms of insurance. We pay several tens of thousands of insurance costs every year. Before we worry about risk management, ( as seems to be a big thing these days with APBA), we do risk assessment. There are different rates for different divisions of the construction industry. I firmly believe that stock and mod could be assessed separately and result in much lower event costs and lower membership costs....which might greatly boost participation and net APBA as much or more in their coffers. If APBA needs help in finding an insurance company who could provide such customized service, let me know !

Hunter III

[blueskyracer]

I have long suspected that Stock and Mod outboards are subsidizing the several high risk divisions of APBA. Being a construction business man, I have considerable experience with various forms of insurance. We pay several tens of thousands of insurance costs every year. Before we worry about risk management, ( as seems to be a big thing these days with APBA), we do risk assessment. There are different rates for different divisions of the construction industry. I firmly believe that stock and mod could be assessed separately and result in much lower event costs and lower membership costs....which might greatly boost participation and net APBA as much or more in their coffers. If APBA needs help in finding an insurance company who could provide such customized service, let me know !

Hunter III

:thumbs:

[Dave M]

Great Point Hunter

I have long suspected that Stock and Mod outboards are subsidizing the several high risk divisions of APBA. Being a construction business man, I have considerable experience with various forms of insurance. We pay several tens of thousands of insurance costs every year. Before we worry about risk management, ( as seems to be a big thing these days with APBA), we do risk assessment. There are different rates for different divisions of the construction industry. I firmly believe that stock and mod could be assessed separately and result in much lower event costs and lower membership costs....which might greatly boost participation and net APBA as much or more in their coffers. If APBA needs help in finding an insurance company who could provide such customized service, let me know !

Hunter III

Hunter,

Good point. To talk to your thinking a little, APBA is considered VERY high risk to begin with. Racing is dnagerous. Add in the multi millions of dollars in claims in the last ten years or so and I don't think it is very easy to find a company willing to take on that risk with cheap insurance. I believe APBA offered up their insurance policies for bid a couple years ago, maybe three, and nobody bid. They had to seek out a provider on their own and the costs went up. This was a result of the current provider (at the time) dropping APBA from their companies coverages. I can't speak as to why, but I suspect it is the amount of claims, and the value of the claims. Maybe someone will chime in and correct me if I am wrong. I suspect you are right though, I think the majority of the claims came from "other" categories than stock & mod.

[raceright]

I have long suspected that Stock and Mod outboards are subsidizing the several high risk divisions of APBA. Being a construction business man, I have considerable experience with various forms of insurance. We pay several tens of thousands of insurance costs every year. Before we worry about risk management, ( as seems to be a big thing these days with APBA), we do risk assessment. There are different rates for different divisions of the construction industry. I firmly believe that stock and mod could be assessed separately and result in much lower event costs and lower membership costs....which might greatly boost participation and net APBA as much or more in their coffers. If APBA needs help in finding an insurance company who could provide such customized service, let me know !

Hunter III

Hunter If you could get APBA's loss runs that will show were the problem areas are. I tried to get them early on when APBA's fees were increasing say 6 years ago.
I was a Pro Commissioner and asked Mark Weber to see them and was told I will never see them.
So with out them there is no proof as to what category is doing the most harm.
Remember there is the possibility that APBA's rates increase because of the number of claims and not necessarily the severity of a claim.
That might lead to the category with the most members.

[DiGia54D]

Now I would guess it was a ABPA santion,not sure. But wasnt it like 2 years ago when they had Multiple racers get killed in the offshore races in Florida? that would raise insurance rates also. I know the drag boats in Reg 1 had lost a driver and one very serious injury 2 years ago.

[raceright]

Now I would guess it was a ABPA santion,not sure. But wasnt it like 2 years ago when they had Multiple racers get killed in the offshore races in Florida? that would raise insurance rates also. I know the drag boats in Reg 1 had lost a driver and one very serious injury 2 years ago.

The insurance is more of a spectator protection than a drivers insurance.
But lawyers will throw something at the wall to see what sticks.

[DiGia54D]

ok, See that I didnt know.. Cant say much about spectators at Stock/Mod races other than there is not to many of them.

[Dave M]

Claims

Wayne,

When was the last time an insurance company hiked up rates of someone because their car was damaged in the parking lot when someone backed into it and left ?

I had a provider once that dropped me. I was traveling on the highway and a semi bloew a tire as I was passing, the tread came by and put a big dent in the passanger door at the bottom. I pulled over called them they said OK, you are covered. Came and inspected it later on said the cost to fix it was estimated to $1500.00. Well when renewel time came, with not one other claim on the policy, they sent me a letter telling me they were not offering a renewal.

Kind of my point when it comes to insurances companies hiking rates when someone sneezes. They are in the business to make money.

P.S. - Think of the catgory that has killed turn judges, and also a category that has had boats up in the stands. If you do a search on youtube you will see some of these crashes.

[Original Looper 1]

What about this?

Wait till the trial lawyers smell blood in the water.

I can see the TV ads now, with models in bikinis laying around a guy sipping drinks by a swimming pool -- "Have you been injured at a boat race as a driver or a spectator? Here at Slashem, Burnem & How we have a special group of lawyers just waiting for your phone call. Let us show you how you can retire early, in comfort, with a successful verdict in the right kind of law suit. We have many former clients now living a life of luxury because of our legal skills and success rate Please call us now, the martinis by the swimming pool in Florida are chilled and waiting, and the ladies in the bikinis are quite inviting too. Remember, at Slashem, Burnem & How danger is not only our business specialty, it's also your ticket to paradise."

In all honesty, how many struggling humans can resist this kind of projected imagery and avenue of recourse with justice brought to you by the unbelievable/ believable legal system?


Regards,

Paul

[Hunter]

I tend to over simplify things, perhaps. But, NBRA event costs are substantially lower. The difference between NBRA and APBA appears to be that NBRA focuses on stock and mod outboards. So, break up the APBA divisions...assess risks realistically and insure divisions separately. I have a few friends playing with 200mph off-shore rigs and some fooling with vintage inboards which have recently proven to be high risk . I assure you that those players can well afford to pay for their divisions insurance without the help of stock and mod divisions.

[deeougee]

Hmmm??? Wonder if APBA is still footing the bill for the Gold Cup. Might make sense if the information was never going to be disclosed. That would be the single highest insurance event since it is the APBA Gold Cup. APBA owns that event. Does anyone know what ACHA pays for insurance per event? They only do inboard hydro events.

[Racerkyle20]

Hmmm??? Wonder if APBA is still footing the bill for the Gold Cup. Might make sense if the information was never going to be disclosed. That would be the single highest insurance event since it is the APBA Gold Cup. APBA owns that event. Does anyone know what ACHA pays for insurance per event? They only do inboard hydro events.

FYI H1 unlimited has their own insurance, separate from other APBA categories.

Also insurance premiums went down in each category this year in APBA.

[Racerkyle20]

I tend to over simplify things, perhaps. But, NBRA event costs are substantially lower. The difference between NBRA and APBA appears to be that NBRA focuses on stock and mod outboards. So, break up the APBA divisions...assess risks realistically and insure divisions separately. I have a few friends playing with 200mph off-shore rigs and some fooling with vintage inboards which have recently proven to be high risk . I assure you that those players can well afford to pay for their divisions insurance without the help of stock and mod divisions.

NBRA, from what I remember reading last year, has a 3 million dollar policy per event. APBA's is 5 million. That I believe is the difference in Cost. APBA's overall insurance went down for the coming year and passed the saving's to the clubs in lower premiums.

[David Weaver]

More on APBA, NBRA and Insurance

APBA Racing Event Insurance - Presently, the various categories have different insurance premiums for a weekend of boat racing. Some level of subsidy could still exist, but there are material differences. As said above, H1 takes care of insurance for Unlimited racing. I do not believe that offshore raced under APBA last year or had a limited schedule.

APBA has assets to protect (for better or not), so perhaps that results in higher liability requirements. Also, I recall having to secure certain minimum liability coverage in order to race at certain venues (town or county requirement).

NBRA is doing something right. You only have to look at its schedule for 2014. APBA has been in existence for a very long time, so again it must be getting somethings right. I suspect that cooperation is the key to both entities futures.