Boat Racing's Direction / Survival

[csh2z]

Wow,
$300. trailer. $9000. Van (+ $24. air mattress). $260. wasted entry fee. $1200. boat.

1 Sidewinder, 1 prop. Oh, 12 boxes of cheezits(depending on how many of the kids go!)

[reed28n]

Trailer

Wow,
$300. trailer. $9000. Van (+ $24. air mattress). $260. wasted entry fee. $1200. boat.

1 Sidewinder, 1 prop. Oh, 12 boxes of cheezits(depending on how many of the kids go!)

$300 trailer? It must have $200 of beer in it?

[PRO-MOTIONRACING]

Just curious, why can't one put an "A" gear-case on a 15hp OMC fishing motor and race "A" or at least "J" with it ? It looks like the same gear-case on the OMC, Mercury and the Sidewinder ? Are these gear- cases still being manufactured?

[Big Don]

Wow,
$300. trailer. $9000. Van (+ $24. air mattress). $260. wasted entry fee. $1200. boat.

1 Sidewinder, 1 prop. Oh, 12 boxes of cheezits(depending on how many of the kids go!)

John, you forgot to include the 3.99 of duct tape holding the racks on.

[brill27]

you guys must be drinking warm beer leftover from the last race

[glen wesanko]

Stock outboard's downward spiral

Always interesting to read these threads concerning the decline in the numbers of participants in outboard racing. As a recent convert to the "sport" I can understand the frustration new entrants experience. My take is that this is basically a contest of equipment as opposed to a drivers contest. The basic format of little to no testing time combined with a three lap "sprint" means the race is usually over by the first turn.Great if you have years of experience, the latest boat and the fastest prop, not so much if you don't! Make a good start and it's a "drag" race to the first pin. 1 mph off the pace and your lane has disappeared and you can enjoy running the next 2 1/2 laps in the slop trying to survive. Don't get me wrong, it's still a lot of fun and the social aspects for me make the weekend but for someone who is very competitive they are unlikely to engage in this game for very long.I would think it could be just as tiresome if one had the fastest rig and expected to win every weekend. Unfortunatly the 80-20 rule seems to be generally the norm. Our Novice C program in Region 10 is a brilliant solution to this, as is the new 302 ss class for new racers that have not yet invested in new equipment. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.... JGW 1CW

[Ron Hill]

Nice Post, Dave!

Rentention - Sit back and evaluate who you are trying to retain ? Are you focused correctly ? If you can't retain what you currently have, how are you going to retain any new to the sport members ? You need to work on that turnover stat.

1. Stop messing with tech rules, and safety rules.
2. Stop pushing people around
3. Combine categories for one stronger organization.
4. Focus on keeping costs down to the racer.
5. NEVER eliminate older engines unles they simply can't be found anywhere. (stop and think about this, how many people did you lose the last 30 years from engine eliminations ? You will never know)
6. Make rules black & white. Keep It SIMPLE. I should be able to read the rule book in 15 minutes; general, safety and tech.
7. Retain current memebers in any possible way.
8. Remove long standing authorities and infuse fresh blood.
9. Get over yourselves, this is for fun, not Nascar.
10. Make it fun for all. Become approachable, and approach others.

Food for thought, sit back and think about this, who are you really trying to retain.... has the current program helped anything in the last 25 years ?

I've just about finished mark Levin's book called "The Liberty Amendments". Mark outlines what is needed and how to do it. I doubt if his ideas go anywhere but the ideas are great.

My first question to you is HOW do you implement your 10 ideas?

My second question is how long (From start to finish) is an average NBRA racing day?

[stevegray]

Seriously, is there such a motor, "101 Yamato"? I've been in and out of the loop for 40+ years and I don't remember a 101. Yamato; 80,102,202 and 302 and of course the A,B,C,D and F,( 250,350, 500,700, and 1100cc) maybe the alky trashed my memory

[Jack Stotts]

Yes, there was a 101. I had one which I purchased sight unseen. It was not a legal engine in APBA or NBRA. Parted it out. Jack

[stevegray]

101

Thanx Jack, where was it legal?

[propnuts]

Curious about point #2

I have a hard time believing in a "member driven" organization people get "pushed around", can you explain or give examples? Keep in mind that making and enforcing rules is a basic job of APBA, so that should never be construed as pushing people around.

Rentention - Sit back and evaluate who you are trying to retain ? Are you focused correctly ? If you can't retain what you currently have, how are you going to retain any new to the sport members ? You need to work on that turnover stat.

1. Stop messing with tech rules, and safety rules.
2. Stop pushing people around
3. Combine categories for one stronger organization.
4. Focus on keeping costs down to the racer.
5. NEVER eliminate older engines unles they simply can't be found anywhere. (stop and think about this, how many people did you lose the last 30 years from engine eliminations ? You will never know)
6. Make rules black & white. Keep It SIMPLE. I should be able to read the rule book in 15 minutes; general, safety and tech.
7. Retain current memebers in any possible way.
8. Remove long standing authorities and infuse fresh blood.
9. Get over yourselves, this is for fun, not Nascar.
10. Make it fun for all. Become approachable, and approach others.

Food for thought, sit back and think about this, who are you really trying to retain.... has the current program helped anything in the last 25 years ?

[Jack Stotts]

The 101 was a precursor to the 102. It had different port timing and narrower exhaust manifold. I bought it from a guy who had purchased it at the Dallas Boat Show many years earlier to use as a pleasure boat engine. I don't think the 101 was ever raced in the US, at least in any sanctioned org. Probably not enough were imported. I got it for $300 and have kept the lower unit for a CMod spare and the mag plate for spare coils. Sold the rest for, as I remember, $300. Jack

[reed28n]

You are not wrong

Always interesting to read these threads concerning the decline in the numbers of participants in outboard racing. As a recent convert to the "sport" I can understand the frustration new entrants experience. My take is that this is basically a contest of equipment as opposed to a drivers contest. The basic format of little to no testing time combined with a three lap "sprint" means the race is usually over by the first turn.Great if you have years of experience, the latest boat and the fastest prop, not so much if you don't! Make a good start and it's a "drag" race to the first pin. 1 mph off the pace and your lane has disappeared and you can enjoy running the next 2 1/2 laps in the slop trying to survive. Don't get me wrong, it's still a lot of fun and the social aspects for me make the weekend but for someone who is very competitive they are unlikely to engage in this game for very long.I would think it could be just as tiresome if one had the fastest rig and expected to win every weekend. Unfortunatly the 80-20 rule seems to be generally the norm. Our Novice C program in Region 10 is a brilliant solution to this, as is the new 302 ss class for new racers that have not yet invested in new equipment. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.... JGW 1CW

You have outlined the reason for new motors, it resets the scale. We all have the same starting point. The 302SSH class will have a level playing field for a while but eventually stuff will gravitate toward faster or more competitive options..... it starts as everyone is on the same playing field then a guy has a perceived advantage and people start chasing that advantage.... boat, helmet shape, lead placement, fin placement , it could be ANYTHING.... next thing you know we are all chasing the same couple guys. The answer at that point is reset the platform again.

While many will take issue with replacing equipment it will keep everyone competing... a few fast motors or rigs in a class stunts its appeal.....if you put twelve equal ping pong balls in a bowl and you can't tell them apart ill them come out? You have powerball **** MILLIONS!!!!

I still maintain your greatest expense is getting to 12 races.....just get a motor that gives you a chance to win (it might be a brand new one). Why spend all that money to go all that way to know you won't compete week after week.

And if it isn't in the motor why then do some many guys that run our front go through so many motors? or spend some much money re machining perfectly engineered new motors? Why? because it counts. NEW motors allow everyone any opportunity or equal chance at the same horsepower...

[B Walker]

Always interesting to read these threads concerning the decline in the numbers of participants in outboard racing. As a recent convert to the "sport" I can understand the frustration new entrants experience. My take is that this is basically a contest of equipment as opposed to a drivers contest. The basic format of little to no testing time combined with a three lap "sprint" means the race is usually over by the first turn.Great if you have years of experience, the latest boat and the fastest prop, not so much if you don't! Make a good start and it's a "drag" race to the first pin. 1 mph off the pace and your lane has disappeared and you can enjoy running the next 2 1/2 laps in the slop trying to survive. Don't get me wrong, it's still a lot of fun and the social aspects for me make the weekend but for someone who is very competitive they are unlikely to engage in this game for very long.I would think it could be just as tiresome if one had the fastest rig and expected to win every weekend. Unfortunatly the 80-20 rule seems to be generally the norm. Our Novice C program in Region 10 is a brilliant solution to this, as is the new 302 ss class for new racers that have not yet invested in new equipment. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.... JGW 1CW

Hi Glenn,

The experience you describe when you say "a contest of equipment" is what Modified Outboard racing is supposed to be but what the Stock Outboard experience has become.

Also, you are completely correct in that the 302SSH, Novice C and NorCal programs are much closer to the spirit and intent of Stock Outboard as it was intended, not what it has become gradually over the last 50 years.

Stock Outboard was supposed to be a level playing field where a driver competed against another driver using similar equipment. No special mechanical skills required. It was a driving contest. That worked great in the beginning. Then for a variety of reasons more and more modifications were allowed in "stock" outboards. Frankly it was not possible to do a Stock Outboard class as it was intended until computer controlled machining. By the time that happened with Yamato Corp the era of factory backing for the sport had vanished.

To be more direct, the manufacturing tolerances on all outboard manufacturers of the 50's, 60's and into the 70's were very lenient compared to a Yamato starting with the Model 80 introduced in the late 70's.

This is important because the wide manufacturing tolerances of pre 80's outboard manufacturers are what allowed the concept of "blueprinting" and took Stock Outboard significantly closer to the Modified Category. So close that today many find no difference between Stock Outboard category and the Modified Outboard category.

I too believe that sealed motors in the 302SSH program and the other efforts being made with the NorCal Program and Novice C will breathe new life into Stock Outboard.

I was there when the appeal was upheld and a dry tower was forever allowed in the OMC 15. Another missed opportunity for Stock Outboard to get it right and a sad day for the sport.

We will see if they can stay on the right path in 302SSH.

Brad Walker

[daveracerdsh]

302SSH/Stock outboarding

It was my intent from the beginning to make the 302SSH class as level a playing field as possible. When I first got into stock racing in the 80's..i wanted to race equipment that did not need to be "tinkered with"....thus my entry into CSH. However...within the first 3 races...I soon discovered that to be out front, you needed to blueprint motors etc. I was like....huh....I thought this was stock racing? Little did i know at the time.....Think about the average joe coming in to the sport and finding out that to win in almost any stock class, for the most part, you have to devote a good deal of money to making motor as perfect as possible, along with buying god knows how many props etc to make the thing work..thus the idea for 302SSH. Is the class perfect? No. But....we will have a rule freeze in place soon....no changes for a long time. Sorta rambling on here....but I hope people support the class.