2013 Whitney Point Schedule / Updates

[dholt]

SO commission needs to do the right thing and not reschedule the finals. Would do way more harm than good.

[pav225]

JH and JR

Thanks George, Then the J category should not receive HOC points for this event.

I'm not sure why you would come to this conclusion. Both JR and JH National Champions were crowned at Whitney Point.

Take a look at the HOC rules stated below... The Junior Class driver Qualifies for HOC based "solely on their accomplishments in JH and/or JR."

RULE 20 • JUNIOR CLASSES AWARDS
1. Hall of Champions: The criteria for selection will be as follows:
A minimum of one driver selected to the Hall of Champions must be a participant in Junior Hydro or Junior Runabout and have qualified for the Hall of champions based solely on their accomplishments in JH and/or JR.

Additional drivers selected can only be inducted one time if no longer age eligible for Junior Hydro and/or Junior Runabout. Drivers must have won either both hydro or runabout closed course National Championship in JH, JR, AXR or AXR. OR Drivers must have one the overall High Point Championship (with no less than 10 legal races where he/she earned points) in JH, JR, AX or AXR.


Additional drivers can be selected after the JR or JH driver has been selected. While its disappointing that AX couldn't run, it has no impact on the selection of the JR or JH driver selected for the Hall. Therefore, I would argue that the Nationals should count for J HOC.

Mike

[reed28n]

Race Comittee

The race director and race committee should answer Mr. Boyes question of 'postponed' VS 'cancelled' - from my understanding, we were told that racing at Whitney Point was done for the weekend at an impromptu Driver's Meeting Friday at noon. From my understanding, the Referee is not a true member of the Race Committee, only the interpreter of the rules. The SORC would have to overrule the race committee - can someone correct me please if I'm wrong?

Regardless, the SORC/MORC/J Committee need to notify their members the status of the remaining Nationals' heats within the next 24 hours despite what the 'final decision' may be (even if there is not one by that point!). Kneeldown APBA Racing needs a better means of communication for this than an online forum. An official statement, email, posting, etc. needs to be made to at least 'clear the air'. I'm sure that those members of their respected commissions/committees are working on a means of doing this as this dialogue happens.

However, IF the Nationals are postponed to another race site on another date, the following information needs to be made clear ASAP:

1. What do I do if I have a sealed/painted motor? I cannot break those seals for at least the next two weeks, possibly longer? Do I have to take that motor to an approved inspectors' location to break that seal? I have a motor in which needs to be maintained - I do not want to go through hoop-jumping for 2+ weeks in order to do so, in part, risking the state of my equipment which would not normally occur.

2. What happens when the 'rescheduled' Nationals fall on the same weekend as a previously scheduled race that has been planned for 9+ months in advance? Does that race site cancel their already scheduled race which many local racers and community members have planned on since the winter/spring, even though the Nationals did not go as planned? This 'unfairness' which is getting thrown around trumps 'unfairness' in regards to HOC points and a National Champion patch.

3. What happens when less than 8 drivers start the rescheduled National Finals' heat? It's no longer a "true" National Championship even though there may have been 12 at roll call on Thursday nights' Drivers' Meeting. Filling in "local" drivers here should absolutely NOT be an option. Those who were present, raced, and qualified (whether it be in the starting 12 or as an alternate) should be the ONLY racers eligible for the rescheduled Nationals. I have no animosity towards those who cannot attend the Nationals, but they should not have the opportunity to win a rescheduled Nationals (even if it were God's Will) when they were not present to qualify or attend Driver's Meeting at the first go-around.


Among other details, these are what stick out to a racer, race director, and new member coordinator who is qualified for a championship which has not been run. This is a very unique situation at a very unique time in APBA/SO/MO/J Racing history. What is decided at this point in time will set a precedent for things to come in the future (hopefully something a natural disaster will not have to affect again). Please think long-term. Not just what should happen 'this year'.

Regards,

Elek Hutchinson
36M

At the 12:00 pm drivers meeting on Friday the race a Whitney Point was "Canceled" after I mentioned that the commissions would be meeting and I encouraged everyone to lobby their commissioner for what would happen next. But to be clear and to restate what was said at the meeting, the race was canceled.

Scott Reed

[Jack Stotts]

No matter how you do it, if the decision is to reschedule the remaining classes depending on the option taken it will be unfair to some and in some cases, many. THE FAIREST THING IS TO CALL IT QUITS FOR THIS YEARS NATIONALS. I agree wih Howie. Jack

[DiGia54D]

I'm not sure why you would come to this conclusion. Both JR and JH National Champions were crowned at Whitney Point.

Take a look at the HOC rules stated below... The Junior Class driver Qualifies for HOC based "solely on their accomplishments in JH and/or JR."

RULE 20 • JUNIOR CLASSES AWARDS
1. Hall of Champions: The criteria for selection will be as follows:
A minimum of one driver selected to the Hall of Champions must be a participant in Junior Hydro or Junior Runabout and have qualified for the Hall of champions based solely on their accomplishments in JH and/or JR.

Additional drivers selected can only be inducted one time if no longer age eligible for Junior Hydro and/or Junior Runabout. Drivers must have won either both hydro or runabout closed course National Championship in JH, JR, AXR or AXR. OR Drivers must have one the overall High Point Championship (with no less than 10 legal races where he/she earned points) in JH, JR, AX or AXR.


Additional drivers can be selected after the JR or JH driver has been selected. While its disappointing that AX couldn't run, it has no impact on the selection of the JR or JH driver selected for the Hall. Therefore, I would argue that the Nationals should count for J HOC.

Mike

Mike, i 100% agree on this. But this is where a bad desicion by the POWERS to be made a mistake. I saw a thread years ago about why is AXR/AXH even in the J catagory. So now its possible that a youngster cant get into the HOC because the J catagory has a class that has adults running in them

[reed28n]

Unfortunate but true

No matter how you do it, if the decision is to reschedule the remaining classes depending on the option taken it will be unfair to some and in some cases many. THE FAIREST THING IS TO CALL IT QUITS FOR THIS YEARS NATIONALS. I agree wih Howie. Jack

I agree with Jack and Howie, the titles do not have to be awarded. Some of the rules in racing come down to just hard luck. If you get chopped in a corner the offending boat gets tossed but it rarely helps you. Or if someone changes lanes in the chute you don't get that lane back. Park the titles for a year and lets reset for Moses Lake.

[14-H]

I suggest to the SORC that NO HOC points are awarded for this event.

This would violate our rules. More importantly, how is this fair to the drivers who did win a title? They may never have a chance to get in the HOC again.

[Fast Jack]

Race or not . Qualified drivers vote

Let the drivers that are qualified for the finals vote 1- Yes run the finals...2- dont run the finals. If the vate is yes - Run the final at an already sanctioned event. If Lock Haven has the largest average of CSH for the last 3 races they get the class, If Tabor City has the largest AXH they get the class, If Standish is the highest average of 25r they get it ,and so on .

[Matt Dagostino]

2012 National Champions..........

I would hope the upcoming SORC Discussion would also address what happens to the pre-qualified dirvers who did not get to run. All the Divisional and Defending 2012 National Champions!!

In the event the SORC votes to 'bag' the remaining classes that did not run at Whitney Point, should the pre-qualified drivers (especially the defending National Champions) be qualified for Moses Lake in 2014?????

Thanks again to Reed, Clark, Palmer and Rich Runne etc etc for all the hard work.

Special thanks to Team Luce and especially King George for quarterbacking the best social event of the week Tuesday. The feast of the regions was a huge hit. Gary Pond, Luce, Hunter, Doc Miller, Dave Young and on and on provided a feast!!

I hope we don't see rain for at least a year!! Val and I really now have a appreciation for how dangerous a flash flood can be!!

Matt, Val and The Rock

[reed28n]

At the 12:00 pm drivers meeting on Friday the race a Whitney Point was "Canceled" after I mentioned that the commissions would be meeting and I encouraged everyone to lobby their commissioner for what would happen next. But to be clear and to restate what was said at the meeting, the race was canceled.

Scott Reed

The decision by the Race Committee was not protested within one hour of the conclusion of the race, or within one hour of the last motor clearing inspection.

RULE 15 • PROTEST
A protest is a written statement by a driver or owner to the Race Committee alleging violation of the rules affecting their particular class.
1. Any JH, JR, AXSH, AXSR, MO, or SO driver may protest a violation of the rules by filing a written statement of the protest with the referee or assistant
referee along with a one hundred dollar ($100.00) filing fee. (For PRO classes, see PROTESTS under the General Racing Rules.)
2. Protests involving the sanction or the manner in which the regatta is being conducted must be made within sufficient time to allow the alleged
violation to be corrected. The Race Committee shall consider the protest and render a decision.
3. Protests involving the eligibility or legality of an entry must be filed in writing with the referee or assistant referee not later than one hour after the
finish of the inspection in question, or one hour after the finish of the final heat of the day, whichever is later. Any driver wishing to file a protest after the
final heat of the day has been completed must notify the referee or assistant referee of his or her intent to file a protest within fifteen (15) minutes of the time
when the final class of the day clears inspection. The notification of intent to file a protest may be either written or verbal.

[G Stillwill]

If the rule is still the same the only way you can get in the Hall is with an at large vote in the AX classes. JH and JR has nothing to do with the AX classes other then they are in the J division.

[bill boyes]

OK, My mistake on the HOC J category. AX is an at large appointment. Another Senior Moment.
Give the kids HOC points.

[14-H]

The decision by the Race Committee was not protested within one hour of the conclusion of the race, or within one hour of the last motor clearing inspection.

Only the SORC may decide whether to award a championship. If the race committee does not complete the event and the championships are not awarded, the SORC may decide whether to award the championships to another event. As I mentioned in a prior post, the APBA President has already informed both the SORC and the MORC that the decision as to whether to award the championship races to different venues is within their jurisdiction.

[Matt Dagostino]

Hum...........

OK, My mistake on the HOC J category. AX is an at large appointment. Another Senior Moment.
Give the kids HOC points.

The J Division now has two available HOC spots!! One HAS to be from the JH or JR class and the other is wide open to any of the four classes in the division!!

The at-large BS process is now a thing of the past in the J Division to get a deserving driver in the HOC....I believe Pavlick posted only the portion of the rule applicable to JH and JR. However the rule was changed to give a second spot so the AX Classes did not have to grovel to get recognized if a participant earned it like Laura Wheeler, Val D'Agostino, Brent Dillard etc etc

[mercguy]

I suggest to the SORC that NO HOC points are awarded for this event.
In any event it is a SORC decision. That is why they get paid the big bucks. LOL

Why would you say that Bill? Are you saying that the classes that were ran and completed should be penalized and removed of their Championahips, which would also include most of the Mod classes? That would be even more of a disappointment.....