Another Thought for National Meeting

[D_Allen_III]

I was just thinking about what else could be brought up at the meetings that are scheduled this week and the major idea that I haven't seen brought up and this goes for the Stocks, Mods, and Jls mainly, and since the PRO's already use the idea it shouldn't be an issue. I was thinking about our national's and how easy it can be for someone to win our nationals without being the best driver and/or fastest driver. What I would propose would be to use 3 heats in the Finals of all the classes. With 2 heats, if people jump the gun and others just stay in the back with the hope of people jumping he/she can win when it wasn't deserved, and also if someone blows one start it can cost them, which it should. But with 3 heats it gives the drivers even more of a chance to have an impact on their championship hopes rather than knowing if they jump the gun it will be over. It's the best racing of the year and I think it would be awesome to have another heat to win the final. What do others think?

[kws]

i dont know but wouldnt that triple the time it takes to run all the classes?
or would the final heat turn into the final race with three heats?

isnt that why you race the way you do?timing the clock being a BIG part of the race to start with. otherwise why not qualify, earn your spot , line up,have a pace boat. no starting clock that way you can avoid blowing a start.fastest boat wins.lol but what do i know im new to the sport

[D_Allen_III]

well with all the classes we run as it is, if we eliminated 2-3 of the classes that only have 8-9 boats at the nationals we could save the time to run the extra heat, and even with elimination heats, the schedule is so long a handful of extras wouldn't be a big deal.

and starting, im not doing it so you don't have to know how to start and so you should get a second chance at winning. But when you can squeak into the finals with gun jumpers and in the past people have one being the slowest person on the course but because everyone else realized they had to push the clock in order to win, they all jumped. this way with 2 more heats that person that is hoping for a screw up by everyone else, can win because they still need 2 more solid heats. plus its the best racing of the year, who doesnt want to race against the 11 best drivers in his/her class.

[Dave_E71]

Actually, the way it works at the PRO nationals is that everybody runs 2 elimination heats and the 12 boats scoring the most points move on to the final heat. 3 heats total, not 3 heats in the finals. If this were adopted
in the stock/mods it would eliminate any free passes to the finals by winning the (I think) divisionals.
Dave

[mike ross]

The 3 heat idea would be kind of cool. I agree with Donny it would make it a little more exciting to have a extra heat to mix up your chance. Maybe we could try it with a few classes. The ones with the most entries would be a good test as these ones always have a twist when it comes to the winners. It also wouldn't lengthen the show to much if we did it in just a few classes. Mike

[jsilvestri]

If I understand Dave's post, we would not be gaining an extra heat of racing, we would be losing a heat of racing. Am I correct when I say that?

[D_Allen_III]

I must have been wrong when using the PRO category as a comparison. I think the pros don't have elims they just use the first to heats of the finals as elims and just tally points up for the three heats. I was saying we should have our 2 heats of elims and then in the finals have 3 seperate heats to tally points. so we would gain a heat.

[G Stillwill]

Years ago when there was only 10 classes of stocks the first guy that jumped was booted for that heat and all the boats would go by the judges stand and the ref would point to the guy that was first over then the white flag would go up and the rest of the 11 boats would start again and anyone over that time was booted and the race continued with the gun jumpers running. But at that time the Stock Nats lasted 7 days. Getting a good start without jumping the gun is all part of being a good driver. Sure even the best drivers jump sometimes but at the Nats theres alot at stake and most have driven along ways to get there and better be able to get a good start without jumping. As far as someone laying back just hoping that there will be gun jumpers just dont fly the only way they would benifit is if everyone jumped. Theres also two sides to the coin a guy that is really running good has to run behind the gun jumpers in the slop taking a chance on flipping and be out of the race completly and those same guys go on to get another chance. Everyone controls there own destiny at the start either you do it right or mess up and are out. I wouldnt want to be the one to tell someone they cant run the Nats because theres only 8 or 9 boats in his class after driving 2000 miles to get there. Everyone is complaining now the reace days are to long and by adding another heat would add 1/3 the time to the races. Its hard enough to get people to man the patrol boats let alone wanting them to stay out there longer, more then once I spent over two set just so the races could get done. If you ran three heats as close as everone is running there would still be gun jumpers and you still wouldnt have all the fastest boats out there. The only way to do that would be to run time trials and take the 12 fastest boats , start them two by two with a pace boat. It would be better just to go back to the old for mat and first boat over is out and the other 11 get another chance. Just my 2 cents

[dholt]

Sign me up

I'd be all over more heats at the Nationals. 3, 4..7 heats for the finals...why NOT?

Only thing holding us back is the multitude of other heats/classes that have to be run.

Can't stuff 10 pounds into a 5 pound bag.


As for the current format...it has it's faults. 3 heats would probably be more fair. Either way, 99% of the time you gotta get a start, be fast and be a good driver.


Dana

[jsilvestri]

The flying start is part of what we do as stock and mod outboarders. As mentioned by most, you have to get a good start whether your really fast or not, to have any chance at winning. A possible solution to avoiding the flying start would be going to a lemans start. The pro catagory uses it at times and I've seen it used for special events at local races. Personally, I think two heats is fine. An option not used often in the midwest is racing a class three times over two days at a reduced entry fee. This was done at TRORA's Alexandria race last season thanks to our Race Chairman, Dana Holt, and everybody I talked to loved it. More time on the water in the same rig.

Lately, I've seen other forms of racing on the water, jet skis, and just recently I saw snowmobiles racing on the water, very cool. What stood out the most to me was that their racing was simplified by using lemans starts and there ability to race on both smooth and rough water conditions.

[BP125V]

more boat time

I like it Donny. I think we need to do all we can to increase boat time without increasing cost to the drivers. The Nationals is THE race of the year, I think this would add to the prestige and uniqueness of this event. Being in the finals is an honor, make the honor that much bigger by adding a heat.

Bill III

[Brian10s]

I think part of our appeal is that you could be the slowest and still get in becasue everyone jumped. How many racers have won their first race running 8-12 on the water yet being the only legal boats. This is not a bad thing.

I agree with Dana that the more heats of Nationals racing the better but by adding an extra heat, all you are doing is decreasing the "weight" alotted to each heat. Right now, each heat is 50%, with 3 heats, it would be 33.34% each. You still would have to score well in each heat to win. Yes, a driver would have a better chance to still win (or place) with a gun jump or a disqual but the variables would still be against you.

As it stands now, you need to be perfect (or lucky) in both heats to win. All 3 heats would do is take some of the luck out of the picture. And isn't luck a big part of the "fun"? The fastest or most deserving does not always win.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!! That's why we play the fued!

[AT26M]

More Race time

I think thats a pretty good idea, exspecially for the guys who go there and are only competetive in 1 class. Depending on the schedule some guys can go to nats and wait around all week just to run their one class. If you make it to the finals you should be rewarded, and having an extra heat of racing is could make it possibly more competitive and give more of a thrill to the drivers getting 3 chances to compete for the national crown.

An add on to this suggestion is to maybe only have the 3 heat final for classes with a set number of boats. Im not sure how many boats is alot for one class at nats but we could only do the 3 heat final for certain classes with its fair share of boats, this would help with the schedule...

Ha i dunno if im making any sense to any of you but im having trouble explaining it...
Andrew Tate

[kws]

well if some classes get 3 heats they all should .
i mean untill its droped its still a class treat them the same

[Dave M]

Go For it

If the logistics can be worked out I would be in favor. Seperate Nationals I think you might be able to pull it off, combined, forget it, to many classes.

As for the Lemans starting thing, it is cool, but in Mod and Stock some engines don't like to start in the water, HotRods, and my FE, and Dad's DM, so to have three people crewing is tough. Hard enough to get enough help with two !!