Need Tohatsu help

[daveracerdsh]

Very interesting stuff

Any motor....whether it be 2 stoke, 4 stroke, turbine....you name it...has a "personality". All internal parts....pistons, rings, crank, you name it...can be identical measurment wise. Yet...what makes one motor...identical to another, turn more rpms? Make more power? When I was racing in the Merc Challenge series in the early 90s...I had 2 identical 44xs powerheads......they we spot on the same. Same bore, same electronics, same carbs, prepared by the same engine builder, you name it. Yet one motor, using the same prop as the other, same setup, same gas, same boat etc...was 1 mph faster then the other. What little difference between the 2 made the faster motor faster? That is what keeps me going to this day....to find the little difference in motors that makes one motor faster then the other. I have also had 2 identical props.out of the same casting......same "prop builder" and yet one prop is a total dog....and the other I would not take 5k for. Why is that? What makes identical props.....they pitch out the same...both on a pitch gauge and a hi-tech prop checker.....be so different? It is all part of the fun/puzzle that is stock outboarding.

[mercguy]

right on Dave!!

Any motor....whether it be 2 stoke, 4 stroke, turbine....you name it...has a "personality". All internal parts....pistons, rings, crank, you name it...can be identical measurment wise. Yet...what makes one motor...identical to another, turn more rpms? Make more power? When I was racing in the Merc Challenge series in the early 90s...I had 2 identical 44xs powerheads......they we spot on the same. Same bore, same electronics, same carbs, prepared by the same engine builder, you name it. Yet one motor, using the same prop as the other, same setup, same gas, same boat etc...was 1 mph faster then the other. What little difference between the 2 made the faster motor faster? That is what keeps me going to this day....to find the little difference in motors that makes one motor faster then the other. I have also had 2 identical props.out of the same casting......same "prop builder" and yet one prop is a total dog....and the other I would not take 5k for. Why is that? What makes identical props.....they pitch out the same...both on a pitch gauge and a hi-tech prop checker.....be so different? It is all part of the fun/puzzle that is stock outboarding.

as Phil from Duck Dynasty would say......"know your cooking with peanut oil"!! ........lol

[daveracerdsh]

lol

Ya....true that

[daveracerdsh]

Baseball bat

My former sponsor...Pat Fihn and I would sit there in his shop in Oregon [B]and try and figure out what made one identical prop from the other faster...as well as powerheads. I was just a kid at the time....but I was very intuitive,,,he had no answer.....and he was way smarter then me. Money was no object.......yet we could not solve the puzzle. Not to brag...but my first 44xs,,,,,,totaly box stock, was faster then anything Pat had. (4 or 5 motors) To this day we do not know why it was so fast. I never had the thing apart..it was standard bore the day Mike Kelly blew the rods out of the side of the thing. 1995 I think? I had a prop that was not supposed to go to me....but it was easily the fastest d wheel in the country in 91...yet it was all over the place pitch wise...what made it so fast? Dunno,,,,again...thats part of what makes stock outboarding so fun.
aa

[krazy karl]

I knew I guy when I was in high school who was a big time street racer. He bought a brand new 64 Plymouth Belvedere with a 426 wedge with one 4bbl and auto trans. He made more money with it than he did on his day job. He took All New England in B Stock Auto beating the national record holder. All this with a car that was virtually untouched from the factory. He figured he really wanted to clean house the next year so he went through the engine blue printing everything. It never ran the same again and he was a professional mechanic. Sometimes you just never know why.
kk

[boatracer69r]

Dave, sent you a PM...

-Jon

[daveracerdsh]

Jon

Got it. thnx

[Fish On]

Motor

Dave, I know you were having a problem with the water pump. I would check the thermostat. I may be restricting flow enough to heat the motor and you could experience a lose of power. While you are at it make sure the pump impellers are all setting in the same direction.

Jack711R

[nbass]

Hot engine is faster

Dave, I know you were having a problem with the water pump. I would check the thermostat. I may be restricting flow enough to heat the motor and you could experience a lose of power. While you are at it make sure the pump impellers are all setting in the same direction.

Jack711R

Or, maybe there was a restriction that held the engine temperature up. A higher engine temperature is more HP to a point, then binding and distruction. Jack brings up the possibility of a thermostat failure.

[trident]

Different flywheels

Any motor....whether it be 2 stoke, 4 stroke, turbine....you name it...has a "personality". All internal parts....pistons, rings, crank, you name it...can be identical measurment wise. Yet...what makes one motor...identical to another, turn more rpms? Make more power? When I was racing in the Merc Challenge series in the early 90s...I had 2 identical 44xs powerheads......they we spot on the same. Same bore, same electronics, same carbs, prepared by the same engine builder, you name it. Yet one motor, using the same prop as the other, same setup, same gas, same boat etc...was 1 mph faster then the other. What little difference between the 2 made the faster motor faster? That is what keeps me going to this day....to find the little difference in motors that makes one motor faster then the other. I have also had 2 identical props.out of the same casting......same "prop builder" and yet one prop is a total dog....and the other I would not take 5k for. Why is that? What makes identical props.....they pitch out the same...both on a pitch gauge and a hi-tech prop checker.....be so different? It is all part of the fun/puzzle that is stock outboarding.

Did you know these flywheels for the 44XS do NOT all time the same?

I'm looking at the print for the flywheel and the tolerance for the trigger point is +/- 3 degrees. Hmmm, advance is limited by the bolt boss on the bearing cap...

I, too, built two brand new 44XS's back in the day, for the Merc Challenge series... the 'good' one was always the one with the 'good' flywheel. So I swapped back and forth... Both motors with that flywheel were identical in performance. I spent an entire day testing, to prove that to myself.

BTW, some flywheels had runout issues, too. So there are good ones, and not so much.

The beauty of Stock Outboard, sarcasm here, is there is no parity between motors as we can't afford that tight of tolerances from the manufacturer. Remember the bad old days when you had to buy umpteen blocks to get a 'good' one...

How many of you remember the first 25 44Xs motors shipped were recalled? Anyone remember why? What if we hadn't checked the ones that came here? The whole batch would have been DQ'd at the Nationals...

So don't give me any crap about we rub on 'em too much... First we have to find out if they built 'em right AND legal. Kits assembled for ease of shipment is what they are...

Jerry

[form-e one]

on the 44xs,, i dialed indic top dead center then we ran motor to check timeing in degg was interesting what i found even when stockers said just advace it to max only found about 280 max timeing,,, since it a mod cut half the bolt area and cap got my 310,,,, motor way happier...

[daveracerdsh]

Tohatsu

Changed out more stuff over the weekend....down 10 mph from testing. Sorta not sure where to go from here.....

[seanp3]

Time to take Daren up on his offer....

[blueskyracer]

Time to take Daren up on his offer....

I would second that..

[daveracerdsh]

Motor

Yah..I think I am going to have Darren look at the inside of this thing and see if I made a mistake assembling it after having it honed out. I do not THINK it is an internal issue......but....I am not a motor person, so I dont know. I have not checked the thermostat yet....but it does not seem to be either running hot or cold....temp gauge shows anywhere from 225-250 degrees under race conditions. I assume that is about right. The only external parts that have not been changed are the brainbox and the stator plate....will be calling Alex later today and asking him about those two things. Dave