A sidewinder post

[Ron Hill]

Discussing Boat Racing is Fun!

Mr. Hill, with all due respect, you've lost me here. Were we not talking about SideWinder and the viability of it in the "A" class. So, I'll bring this conversation back into the ball field. A couple of points in your pervious posts that I can apply to the SideWinder issue. First, you said your Dad was a Mercury dealer, then you must remember the days somewhere in the 50s and 60s when APBA B class went through a motor almost every other year for about 6 to 10 times the weekly income. To correlate this to the sidewinder, pound for pound, your getting a great deal for a runner out of the box. Second, your electric motor project looks great and is an extremely commendible endevour, I'm sure the logistics are a nightmare though. Great concept, but the electric car died in California in the 70's and if your not Bombardier or Sea-Doo, I think the electric boat will too. Not sure how the electric motor correlates to the SideWinder, but I do know that the SideWinder would be a great platform for a modernization of outboard racing including standard hull design, propellers and displacement. Third, the Y80, not sure where you were going with this point, but I know I can't order new Y80's and there is no factory parts ordering information for replacement parts. As for the connection to the sidewinder conversasion, well, I'm sure you know what I'm trying to say...

1. When "THE TIN CAN MONSTER" AKA Champion Hot Rod first came out, it sold for $430 and weighed 43 pounds. My dad was a dealer for the Hot Rod, Sheppard Machinery was the distributor. I think my dad sold the first ten that hit California. Before the racing season had begun, more than half of the Hot Rods had broke their two piece tower housing and they had lost their "FOOTS".

I think this was 1955-56. By the end of the 1956 season I know the Willards, Jobs, Parrishs, Rogers, Pritchards and Cravens had all quit racing because they were either tired of pouring money into their Hot Rod or tired of getting beat by it.

Bob Davidson could make his Hot Rod run and keep running but by the time the "KIT" came out for the 20-H most B's were gone in SoCal.

2. Electric cars died in the '70's??? My point was and is: There are 72 high school teams racing at Skinner Lake in May. This is a four day event, each team has a group of teacher and students (about 20 people). So, 1,500 people at a boat race all taking part. These STUDENTS feel like "RACERS". This is the 8th year of the race, that I know about, it may have been longer.

Never has anyone from an APBA or LOCAL CLUB approached any of these STUDENTS about racing their boat except at the Solar Cup. It seems to me, if we really wanted new people, not just new people to beat, we would help establish an ELECTRIC CLASS. Brushless electric motors are making 15 HP with not trouble.

3. Yamato motors run and run and run and run is my point....A 302 isn't a new motor, but Ric Montoya has more 302's in stock than their are Sidewinders. A 302 is like $2,200 plus $1,000 to make them go fast....A 15 Merc is $4,400 and a Sidewinder is reported to be $5,500. I could order a 302 today and get it by Parker next weekend.

Marlee Hill raced a 302 at the Winter ationals in 20 and Fred Hauenstein raced it in C Hydro. Stock motor....both Marlee and Fred beat every SoCal Region 12 driver in their class. Seems to me the Yamato should be made legal for "A" on a C size hydro...Oh, I forgot, these "BIG BOATS" would make it too rough for the little boats.

EXAMPLE OF A PLAN:

1. A C Hydro Boat
a. Electric motor
b. restricted 302 for AXS
c. restricted 302 for A Hydro
d. restricted 302 for 20 SS
e. un restricted 302 for C Hydro
f. un restricted for OSY 400

Rstricted could be transom heights, too!

Oh, this is a Sidewinder Thread...bring on the pictures of these motors ready to sjhip to customers standing in line!

ADD:

The Sidewinder is so far from a "MODERN MOTOR". It is a CROSS FLOW...Loopers have been racing in outboards sind about 1965. A "MODERN PLATFORM"???? Cool looking boats, sit down drivers, cool motor cowlings, electric starters....

[MGallagher]

Racing since 1935, Marine and Propeller company involvement, promoter, dealer, boat maker, engine maker, Yamato dealer, etc... Why are you even concerned about the SideWinder, you have all that you need to make a compelling alternative to the current path of APBA. There is no need for you to constantly bash the SideWinder for what your opinion seems to find irratating. You have all the tools and wherewithal to formulate and excecute this plan years ago. You should pay more attention to that than coming on here using APBA historical moments in history to prove that there are, what you feel to be, inadequacies with the SideWinder motor. However, now that you have the electric class in the works you might see how, and why, the SideWinder is an excellent accomplishment in engineering and given the hicups that might accure along the way in your project, have an understanding on how and why APBA is going through this change. But, I doubt it.

[bill boyes]

Ron. Where does the KG-4 fit in.

[rumleyfips]

Mr. Galliger:

I always thought the broken prop shaft was a machining issue not a factory issue. Noone else I talked to at the time broke one.

In 1966 the Hot Rod salesmen tried to lure me to run an A Hot Rod in Canada. Not being a silly fish I didn't bite. Then in 1978 Shannon and Craig went at it about how it was too hard to run a KG4 and I should buy a Rod. Still not a fish. Now I see the same old salesmen's tricks. I had enough parts to still run a KG4 today but I quit when I saw how APBA was going towards new engines.

[rumleyfips]

Sorry folks. My last to remarks have been posted prematurely. When KG4's ran, there were just over a couple of hundred A's at a nationals. Not now.

John McManus

[Ron Hill]

A KG-4 Could Run In AXS

Ron. Where does the KG-4 fit in.

Well, I'd allow the KG-4 to run with AXS......at least on the local level and see where it actually runs.

I'd like to know what a restricted 302 (20 SS) runs for speed at 1 3/8 below the bottom.

ADD:

I'll continue to "BASH" the Sidewinder as long as it is in the "A" Class!

Let it run it its own class! Why ruin the "A" class with it? Last year we got 12 new "A" drivers....in SoCal, this year none.

Here is a picture of 1935 "A" Hydro....78 years ago.....

[Ron Hill]

No 16 mm yamato propshaft ever broke

Mr. Galliger:

I always thought the broken prop shaft was a machining issue not a factory issue. Noone else I talked to at the time broke one.

In 1966 the Hot Rod salesmen tried to lure me to run an A Hot Rod in Canada. Not being a silly fish I didn't bite. Then in 1978 Shannon and Craig went at it about how it was too hard to run a KG4 and I should buy a Rod. Still not a fish. Now I see the same old salesman's tricks. I had enough parts to still run a KG4 today but I quit when I saw how APBA was going towards new engines.

I was Region 12 Chairman when I took the Yamato 80 spec sheets to the APBA National Meeting in Georgia, 1976. I presented the motor with the brass prop as "B" Local. The Commission ruled that, "They had never had a rule about spark plugs of propellers and weren't starting now." Ironic because by 1977 they ruled my four blade props out.

I think it was during John Stone's leadership that the 16 MM shaft was allowed to be turned down.....over objection from Tom Ige and myself. No 16 MM shaft has ever broken to my knowledge. 9/16 props shafts should be ruled out, just an added expense to a new driver, if we had any!



Max McPeek quit boat racing over the KG-4 being "KICKED OUT"....and has never been back to a race.


Clearly, these pictures aren't all "B"'s.....thought I posted "B" pictures.

[Matt Dagostino]

Speed-o

Here is a picture of 1935 "A" Hydro....78 years ago.....

Ron
Is that you or Gene Hackman in the speed-o and the fadora hat?? Guess there was no dress code back then!!

And Matt G. you will never out 'chat' Ron.............i always thought that it would be a good game to play to challenge Ron Hill, RC Hawie and Craig Bowman to a boat racing trivia match!! My money would be on Hill.

[Ron Hill]

Thanks for the Kind Words, Matt

As a teacher, I got paid by the year, not the hour. So talking is what I got paid for. I can talk the ears off a wooden Indian.....

Marlee Hill has led the "Charge" in SoCal's racing .....we have Sara Bloomfield, Britney Schwarzenbach, Nicole Knudsen and we had KT Schwab...

Here is a picture of Ruth Ingalls, the twin sister of the GREAT Tommy Ingalls. circa 1935!

That "A" motor looks somewhat like a Sidewinder, it has a the carb on the side!

ADD Craig Bowman:

I hope everyone realizes that Craig's mom and dad were great, great writers and really helped promote Stock Outboarding grow to the sport it was. I've always expected Craig to start writing as I'm sure he has many, many stories inside him.

LAST ADD:

I drove a twin engine Glastron, in 1966, much like Craig's dad was killed by, but my twin had kill switches. Kill switches were added after Hank Bowman was killed by his own boat in the Orange Bowl 9 Hour.

[Ron Hill]

1935...9 Years Before I was Born!!!

Ron
Is that you or Gene Hackman in the speed-o and the fadora hat?? Guess there was no dress code back then!!

And Matt G. you will never out 'chat' Ron.............i always thought that it would be a good game to play to challenge Ron Hill, RC Hawie and Craig Bowman to a boat racing trivia match!! My money would be on Hill.

That dude in the hat is Doc Ingalls, he was Chief Medical Examiner for LA County or something like that. He and my dad were probably best friends.

ADD:

Here's a KG-4 or two!

[Matt Dagostino]

Geesh.............

That dude in the hat is Doc Ingalls, he was Chief Medical Examiner for LA County or something like that. He and my dad were probably best friends.

Chief Medical Examiner.............!! Nice.

[Ron Hill]

I Think This Is A New Siderwinder Under Wraps

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forum...317#post130317

I have the Ingall's Family pictures on BRF. Tommy was a dentist!

Well, the motor is a cross flow and it has a carburetor on the side.

[bh/]

....."I always thought the broken prop shaft was a machining issue not a factory issue. No one else I talked to at the time broke one....

-speaking with Pat Davids yesterday, and he mentioned that the 1st five 20Hs delivered to Rochester ['56?] all broke their cranks up at the top main bearing.
These were the 'copper' cranks.

BUT, he must be mistaken. I never heard of a Mercury breaking

[MGallagher]

Definitely under estimated his sticktuitiveness, and apparently his ability to post that many picture in such rapid fire succession. The constant sun must have something to do with it.

[sponsonhead]

Definitely under estimated his sticktuitiveness, and apparently his ability to post that many picture in such rapid fire succession. The constant sun must have something to do with it.

Matt:

To paraphrase something I saw elsewhere, keeping Ron on track in a Sidewinder discussion is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are, the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, cr@p all over the board, and strut around like it's victorious.

I suggest a different strategy: Let the Wookie win.

R-19