SORC Please Consider "Parity"

[mercguy]

parity???

let me ask this question: was the Sidewinder "A" motor put under the scrutiny like the Tohatsu D motor was? What I am asking is.....was the motor dyno'ed and compared to the fastest OMC A motor? The new D motor was restricted right off the bat (weight, height, timing, reed stops, etc). From what I am seeing and hearing, the same thing should have been done to the Sidewinder motor right off the bat (as it was able to win the Nationals immediately), but it seems as if it did not fall under the same process (or even same treatment)of the new D motor???? Correct me please, if I am wrong, just curious.....

[jeff55v]

As far as I'm concerned, engine parity and parity commitees should only be a transitional phase. The transition from an old out of production motor to a new currently available motor. These parity commitees should only be formed when a hard phase out date is set for the older motor. What I don't understand is, why is the 302 in the 20ss and 25 class in the first place? Is the 302 going to always be in those classes? Why?

[daveracerdsh]

Sidewinder

At least from my viewpoint the Sidewinder has not had the venom directed at it like the Tohatsu has...there was extensive testing done on motor....parity was somewhat assumed I think. And, not to open up old wounds, but there was an extensive boycott done against the new D motor....which is still very much hurting the D class to this day. Dave

[reed28n]

debate!

Since my boys enjoy using actual facts when discussing an issue, they looked at the attached video.
They were kind enough to attach a pic of the start. I actually started in 3rd. Behind 1 Y302 and 1 Y80. So, to get to the front, I passed 1 Y302 and 1 Y302.
Facts are fun.
[ATTACH]30709[/ATTACH]

I may have roped you into what you think is a debate that is about your trailer....but in fact it is a commentary Parity and the SORC.

We are quick to villainize the new motor. But we are willing to dismiss. Joe Pater, Scott Clark 102's, Ed Hearn's Hot Rod, Joey Z's 25 motor, Jay Fox's OMC A, and there are others....great drivers have won with this stuff....

But those guys, not to discount their hard work, have domianant motors. Tell me the last time Ed Hearn's Hot Rod or Joey Z's 25xs was beat in Runabout or Hydro. (And I thought it was fun to see Tom Nucchio and Donnie Allen Win 25 and Ed drove a great BSR race, I was in the first turn)

Sorry but your photo proves that the the 302 is too fast for the 20SSH class. That is a fact.

With all respect, you are defending something that favors current champions and not people who want an equal chance to get to the podium.

[reed28n]

History

let me ask this question: was the Sidewinder "A" motor put under the scrutiny like the Tohatsu D motor was? What I am asking is.....was the motor dyno'ed and compared to the fastest OMC A motor? The new D motor was restricted right off the bat (weight, height, timing, reed stops, etc). From what I am seeing and hearing, the same thing should have been done to the Sidewinder motor right off the bat (as it was able to win the Nationals immediately), but it seems as if it did not fall under the same process (or even same treatment)of the new D motor???? Correct me please, if I am wrong, just curious.....

Check the history of the two motors and all the conflict...... the sidewinder has been through plenty of scrutiny. The Bass Bros. have been through plenty of scrutiny. I am not suggesting we let Sidewinder run away with the A class....... but I think we should give new drivers an equal oppotunity to get to the front of the pack.....

if you tell me we all have an equal opportunity to procure a top 5 national performing OMCA and a top 5 Merc D motor..for less than the cost of a brand new Sidewinder or Tohatsu ....... then the debate is over.

But that condition does not exist.

[G Stillwill]

The A Sidewinder came out almost three years ago and after testing against a good OMC it was deemed to fast and was slowed down to the point is was un raceable and no motors we sold after and the good OMC campers were happy now with changes it is competitive with the best ones and the tears are falling again. I gave a long report on my finding with my two motors which are probably two of the best in the country. They look fast on the race course simply because they get in and out of the turns faster but on top end there are OMC's that are faster.

[raceright]

I am simply trying to protect our sport and firmly believe if a new motor is 2 MPH faster out of the box than the fastest current motors, then the class will suffer.

I GIVE UP THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS TRUE

[BP125V]

blah,

[mercguy]

Check the history of the two motors and all the conflict...... the sidewinder has been through plenty of scrutiny. The Bass Bros. have been through plenty of scrutiny. I am not suggesting we let Sidewinder run away with the A class....... but I think we should give new drivers an equal oppotunity to get to the front of the pack.....

if you tell me we all have an equal opportunity to procure a top 5 national performing OMCA and a top 5 Merc D motor..for less than the cost of a brand new Sidewinder or Tohatsu ....... then the debate is over.

But that condition does not exist.

what were the dyno results and what restrictions were put on the motor?

PS: there are a few TOP Merc 44XS motors (Steve Johnson's for instance) for sale for less than a new Tohatsu, so your debate is pointless..

[Team 12R]

throw out parity

Hi Mike, This isn't directed as a negative reply to your very thoughtful and well written post. You appear to be trying very hard to save our fragile sport and should be commended for you positive attitude.

From 1955ish until 1978ish The 55H was the motor in D. When the XS became the motor of choice the 55H could be run for fun and I'm sure good drivers who made good starts won their share of races. That span was 23 year more or less. 23 years later we have a new motor that clearly if run without parity would wax the 44XS about 99% of the time. Parity has killed the D stock class. 44 gear cases are like hens teeth and although parts and pieces can be had to keep or beloved Mercs alive, the Tohatsu is the logical choice and should be allowed to antiquate the 44.

Let the cards fall as they may. When we introduce a new motor, let it run the same. The OMC 15 motors have had their run just as the 44XS have. The results show that a good driver can still fair well with the OMC. There will be a class (F/A) for the OMC's once boats, props, and setups make the SW hands down a faster motor.

We need to look forward in this sport. We can't keep protecting our own self-interests. This coming from someone with (2) 44XS motors and a boat that won't run well with a new Tohatsu.

Happy New Year Friends

[pav225]

Thanks

Thanks Bill,
I appreciate your input.

While it may seem argumentative at some points, my intent for this post was to ask the SORC to carefully consider "parity" and get some good ideas from members throughout the country and let folks speak their mind.

Everyone has the right to judge my intentions. I know what they are, and I am comfortable knowing that others will think I am protecticting my own self interests (this isn't directed at you). I purposely selected the A class because we don't race it, and we currently don't have plans to race it in the future. In fact, if folks know me and would actually think it through, I would benefit more from having a new motor. I would enjoy a new challenge and we would quickly develop a new boat, and test like crazy. There is something very appealing about that to me...I just don't think that's in the best interest of our fragile sport.

Hope we make it back to WA next year!

Mike

[pav225]

if you tell me we all have an equal opportunity to procure a top 5 national performing OMCA and a top 5 Merc D motor..for less than the cost of a brand new Sidewinder or Tohatsu ....... then the debate is over.

But that condition does not exist.

Heres some options:
1)Luce's recent post:
first motor now $1700. (won elims @ 2012 nats)
Second motor now $1800.(National winning motor, no gearcase)

2) J Michael Kelly's National Championship winning rig (boat, motor, prop) $4200

3) A motor from Gary Pond for under $3K

[pav225]

Huh?

We are quick to villainize the new motor. But we are willing to dismiss. Joe Pater, Scott Clark 102's, Ed Hearn's Hot Rod, Joey Z's 25 motor, Jay Fox's OMC A, and there are others....great drivers have won with this stuff....

Sorry but your photo proves that the the 302 is too fast for the 20SSH class. That is a fact.

With all respect, you are defending something that favors current champions and not people who want an equal chance to get to the podium.

Scott,
I've never villanized the new motor. I have stated publicly that I think it's incredible what a small number of people have done to create a great A motor.

I'm still not understanding your point on my start. Your original post implied I started in the back and "piled through the pack". After presenting the fact that I started in 3rd and only had to pass 2 boats (hardly piling through the pack) you seem even more adamant that I was TOO fast. I don't understand your point.
Let's review Top 3 at this year's Nationals:
1: Y302
2: Y80
3: Y80

Others have won by larger margins with only 1 motor in the class. Check out AXH for the last 2 years. Laura and Logan were IMPRESSIVE!! I don't have a problem if folks believe we should slow down the 302...as long as its based on facts and consistent with the Vision for Stock.

As far as current motors favoring current Champions. I believe I addressed that with the example of Bennett. He is a Champion with the OMC A and will be Champion with a Sidewinder.

I started this Post to have ideas presented, facts shared, and people to walk through their ideas. I'm missing something in your argument, so feel to use Bennett (sorry Dave) to show how it would benefit the class. I would truly like this to be a learning opportunity, so please walk me through it.

Mike

[Guest]

Racing ........ go as fast as you can!

I have a hard time understanding STOCK RACING. How do you make everything equal?

All the drivers are different in age, ability, skill, knowledge, experience, and guts!
The boats are different, in design and construction.
The props are different in diameter, pitch.
The engines are different actually too, due to blueprinting, part fit and selection.

So what is the aim of STOCK Racing?
Is it to give everyone a fair shot by whatever means, including new faster equipment of boats or engines?
Or is it that you must earn your spot in Racing and not too quickly, by how long you are in the sport?

[blueskyracer]

Racing ........ go as fast as you can!

I have a hard time understanding STOCK RACING. How do you make everything equal?

All the drivers are different in age, ability, skill, knowledge, experience, and guts!
The boats are different, in design and construction.
The props are different in diameter, pitch.
The engines are different actually too, due to blueprinting, part fit and selection.

So what is the aim of STOCK Racing?
Is it to give everyone a fair shot by whatever means, including new faster equipment of boats or engines?
Or is it that you must earn your spot in Racing and not too quickly, by how long you are in the sport?

I like it..Good question...Let the best stuff win and then everyone will buy that stuff if they want a chance to win and the old stuff will eventually disapear.. You should stop hindering the new stuff.. I guess thats why I left stock

You can put J michael in junk and he will win or get more out of it than you ever imagined so even buying the best is no guarantee and will never get you parity with such a variation in driver skill