Question for all racers

[mark5pa]

Rules

I road raced motorcycles with WERA for 11 years. Been 8 years though. Don't remember this much fuss about the rules there, or maybe I wasn't paying attention. The club is very similar to SO & MO racing.

Here is a link to their rule book. Maybe it will help.

http://maps.wera.com/rulebook/?x=1098

[14-H]

So we should have one section of the book called "fair competition" rules and one section called "chicken$#!t" rules, that way we know which ones we should ignore. Sounds like a good job for a lawyer.

We already have this in several places, not the least of which includes the General Racing rules.

[14-H]

Then you explain to the nice insurance folk (which we just obtained as a new carrier) why we are not adhearing to our safety rules. Then after you explain them your side, ask them why they raised our rates.

Kyle: I have said this repeatedly: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DQ SOMEONE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE A RULE. It is the obsessive need to DQ people to make your point that causes people to quit.

[mercguy]

crime vs. punishment

OK, we all agree one should not be DQ'd for a "non-speed" advantage, but what SHOULD be done when one of the other type of violations is discovered? Points reduction? Extra patrol boat duty??

[mrlou40]

When they make the right decision, we tell them they did a good job. When they make a chicken $#!t call, we over rule them. We shouldn't be DQ'ing people for things that have nothing to do with fair competition just to make the officials feel good.

So If I get this right next year when I am inspecting a A.P.B.A. race and have to DQ a racer I need to ask what rule they want to get called on????

The general racing rules and specific cat> rules or Ed's Chicken s#!t rule book???

#1 I donot feel good about any DQ but it is my job (position) in black and white to do so
#2 your going to tell me if I did a good jod per many of the rules you were chairman for and passed? and do not like it when the same rules you say are chicken S#!t are some of the same you have had a hand in over the years???

are you nuts??? why are you trying to piss off so many people who do these thankless jobs all season so you can enjoy a day of racing....

F.U.

C.C.

Sorry Theresa and mike for the last comment

[Boatracer4fun]

This is getting better and better each day. I'm almost out of popcorn.

[Racerkyle20]

Kyle: I have said this repeatedly: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DQ SOMEONE IN ORDER TO ENFORCE A RULE. It is the obsessive need to DQ people to make your point that causes people to quit.

What would you suggest as a punishment in the ASH class at GL? A warning? fix them or else....He already won the nationals! who cares if he fixes them for the next local race. Doesn't seem fair when everyone else is playing by the rules that they get special treatment. Also this rule was enforced by the inspector and referee (ALSO THE APBA PRESIDENT). If they thought a warning was needed, they would have done so. They chose not to and the SORC overruled it.

THIS RULE WAS SET UP 3 YEARS AGO! by your commission no less. If you want to elminate these rules effecting national championships, mandate boat inspection BEFORE the race.

I do agree with your standing that there is discretion involved by the inspectors or referees in enforcing non speed advantage rules at local races. Warnings, yellow cards, etc. But on the national stage that can't be the case.

[14-H]

Kyle: when you won the CSR nationals in 07, your 20-R numbers were illegal on the national stage. I'm sure Chairman Brewster would accept you forfeiting your title to preserve consistency.

[D_Allen_III]

Well... the boat was inspected before the race at a different location, being told it was legal. I understand both sides of the argument and have read the whole thread, but the bottom line is that is really sucks when you are told something is legal, don't change anything and then win to find out it really wasn't legal.

I know, I know, it's happened to others, it's the drivers responsibility, we can't ignore safety rules, it should have been fixed, the insurance company would be ticked, we can't ignore some rules and enforce others, etc. I really do understand both sides of the argument, and both sides have VERY valid arguments.

It really is a crappy situation. It would be one thing if the pickles had never been touched and the rule was just ignored. An attempt was made to make them legal and they were told that it was previous to the event. That really is the ultimate punch in the gut that makes people want to quit, not matter how long they've been racing.

When Jordan Swain and I sat around last weekend talking about we can do to try and get more people to race this sport, regardless of the governing body or the class; this situation comes to mind and it is hard to convince myself it's worth it, let alone a new person you want to convince to spend 10k on a rig.

[14-H]

So If I get this right next year when I am inspecting a A.P.B.A. race and have to DQ a racer I need to ask what rule they want to get called on????

The general racing rules and specific cat> rules or Ed's Chicken s#!t rule book???

#1 I donot feel good about any DQ but it is my job (position) in black and white to do so
#2 your going to tell me if I did a good jod per many of the rules you were chairman for and passed? and do not like it when the same rules you say are chicken S#!t are some of the same you have had a hand in over the years???

are you nuts??? why are you trying to piss off so many people who do these thankless jobs all season so you can enjoy a day of racing....

F.U.

C.C.

Sorry Theresa and mike for the last comment

Mr. Lewis: you might want to read the General Racing Rules. If people get upset because I think champions should be decided on the race course & not in conference rooms, so be it.

[jtower3941]

Rules and DQ's

Who is at fault:

1. Driver. Rules say a driver/owner should know the rules and follow them.
The driver/owner made a change to follow the rule and was given
a safety inspection sticker. Another inspectors, interpertation,
SAID DID FOLLOW THE RULE. Who is at fault,
driver/owner, no, inspectors, maybe, But lets not put it all on the
on inspector. What about not having safety inspection during the
National event, Yes. Non speed rules inspection should be done
during the days leading up to your quilifying heat. If you
fail, a yellow card, and that settles it. Show up after your heat
with illigal non speed issue, DQ.d. Most motor builders know what
is and what isn't legal, so speed issues are done after the final in
inspection and if you are illegal you DQ'd.
NON SPEED ISSUES DO NOT WIN NATIONALS. IF THE
SAFETY ISSUE IS SO IMPORTANT TO INSURANCE. THEN WE
SHOULD HAVE SAFETY INSPECTION INFO CHECK LIST AVAILABLE
FOR THE INSPECTORS BEFORE ANOTHER YEAR PASSES.

By the way. The Grass lake inspection area was well organized
and the voluntens inspectors, if given the info, would have done
a good job.

Their was a difference in opinion in interpertation of the rule by
two different inspectors. How can you DQ a driver on non speed
issue with two different interpertations. This leaves anybody with
the chance that if you run into a inspector, after an event, that
says you illigal. What's that. Reading all the threads, many could
could have been DQ'd at nationals. What about the local races,
do not these rules apply to them?
Done and gone. Non speed issue yellow card, second offence
DQ'd.
But let us have one chk list for all offical to read.

JHTower

[sponsonhead]

Nice Try

Kyle: when you won the CSR nationals in 07, your 20-R numbers were illegal on the national stage. I'm sure Chairman Brewster would accept you forfeiting your title to preserve consistency.

KB won in 2010 and 2011. Nice try, though. Why let facts get in the way of a good post?

R-19

[bill van steenwyk]

rounded pickles versus two by fours

Did you ever see the video or film of a two by four shot out of an "air cannon" at 75MPH to duplicate what can happen with this type projectile in high wind such as a hurricane or tornado.

It will go right thru a brick wall standing 20-30 feet away. With the end area of a two by four versus whatever the dimension of the rounded pickle fork, plus the weight/speed of a race boat traveling basically the same speed, versus a 2X4 (simple ballistics), I doubt that it is going to make much difference injury wise other than showing the insurance company that we have bureaucrat's that also like to make rules, and that we are trying, whether the results are there or not, to indicate we are safety oriented.

Anyone doubt the 2X4 is going to go right thru a person standing in front of the brick wall?

But the commissioner's and committee folks that spend their money to go to the annual meetings have to have something to do to justify time and money spent, so that is where the rules keep coming from, just like the bureaucrat's we employ in government of different type's. Example would be no smoking in an open area just because someone else might be there and stick their nose in the smoke and be offended or get lung cancer down the road with no one else to blame it on.

[Hutch06]

When Jordan Swain and I sat around last weekend talking about we can do to try and get more people to race this sport, regardless of the governing body or the class; this situation comes to mind and it is hard to convince myself it's worth it, let alone a new person you want to convince to spend 10k on a rig.

1.) Put on a Racer School

2.) Provide mentors to drivers interested that will give them good guidance to avoid these situations

3.) Find good, competitive, used equipment to put them in that won't cost them 10k.


I'm not picking on you in one bit Donny, I posted something similar in another thread about how frustrating it is to explain to new folks that "these kind of things don't happen all the time"... no one seemed to have any response for that either.

[14-H]

***But the commissioner's and committee folks that spend their money to go to the annual meetings have to have something to do to justify time and money spent, so that is where the rules keep coming from, just like the bureaucrat's we employ in government of different type's. ***.

Bill: Commissioners spend their own money. Bureaucrats spend taxpayers' money. But I agree with you about the rounded pickle forks.

The point of the thread, though, is whether somebody who gets a safety inspection sticker should be able to rely upon that especially when the RULE says that the sticker acts as a certification that the hull meets all applicable safety rules.